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danijill
New Member
| Joined: | 10 Feb 2007 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 10 Feb 2007 08:43 pm |
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| Has anyone used this with success? I have heard about the injections and diet and would like more info. I live in the Dallas area if anyone knows where to go to do this diet under a doctors supervision.
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solo_bx
New Member
| Joined: | 21 Feb 2007 |
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| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 2007 05:33 pm |
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Hi there!
Human Chorionic gonadodropin (HCG) is a peptide hormone produced in pregnancy.
Is extracted from the subject Urine at this point it is a hormone once is processed, it becomes a drug.
It's frequentely used as a parenteral medication in fertlity therapy in lieu of luteinizin hormone.
In the presence of one or more mature ovarian follicles, ovulation can be triggered by adminitration of HCG.
HCG should never be used as weight loss teraphy, due to the fact that this drug is not intended to help anyone to lose weight, using this drug for weight loss can be dangerous to your health and in many cases fatal.
This drug was banned for the purpose of WEIGHT LOSS back in 1974 by the U.S. FDA, but was not banned for pregnacy therapy, it's ilegal to adminster this drug for that purpose, it will not help anyone lose weight.
Save your money and with it purchase organic food.
I hope this help a lot of desperate overweight people out there.
solo_bx
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Paco
New Member
| Joined: | 18 Apr 2007 |
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| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: 19 Apr 2007 03:55 am |
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The FDA as well as the corporate world have a huge bite on the cash that is coming in due to profits on food. this means that whatever the FDA says and aproves, is nothing but lies and full of #%@&!. hCG has been proven to work. I am using it and I have lost 10 pounds in the last week. Yes, I eat Organic food and drink lots of water. I also take daily vitamins and I wake up alot happier. Don't listen to this clown, man. I am only one guy here, but if you research further, you'll find out that I am not the only one out here who is cutting on the pounds. Hope you stay away from skeptics and negative douche bags who are probably part of the same #%@&!in' corporate world to keep you from becoming better.
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Desireangel
New Member
| Joined: | 13 Mar 2007 |
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| Posts: | 20 |
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Posted: 20 Apr 2007 11:19 pm |
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Hi,
I`m interested in that as well, how did you buy it & how much do you use??? Rosy
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Paco
New Member
| Joined: | 18 Apr 2007 |
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| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: 20 Apr 2007 11:37 pm |
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I learned from the book "The Weight Loss Cure They Don't Want You To Know About"
you can find the book in any book store. I researched before going into it. my research went as far as Europe and Mexico just to see if there was any inconsistency with the information I was reading. I found it that it is true and that people are using this program. is not a diet since you are not really cutting on food, rather a form of getting your metabolism back to its original state and keeping it that way forever.
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 21 Apr 2007 01:02 pm |
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Paco wrote: I learned from the book "The Weight Loss Cure They Don't Want You To Know About"
Wikipedia has an interesting account of the author here: ht tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau
For what it is worth (looking at the full title of the book) I don't think you can lose 30lb in 30 days. Well, not 30lb of fat, anyway. If you're interested in raising your metabolism you could do worse than reading Raise Your Metabolism and Burn More Calories
Last edited on 21 Apr 2007 01:03 pm by Nir
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Paco
New Member
| Joined: | 18 Apr 2007 |
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| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: 21 Apr 2007 05:06 pm |
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Nothing is impossible, my friend. I'm sure you're one of those skeptics who doesn't believe in the power of mind. It's cool though.
There are three kinds of people in this world, The optimistic, the pesimistic and the one who has no grounds to make a decision what he wants to make. People are here for a reason, and that reason is to find solutions to get rid of the fat that alot of us have been trying to get rid of for a long time. From personal experience, I use to weight 280 lbs. that was when I was 21 years old. I made the desicion to go to the gym 6 days a week and I dropped 100 lbs in one year. I kept the weight off for almost 10 years, Now i'm 32, and still have alot of body mass which 30% is fat.
I came across this book that I am now reading and so far I've lost ten pounds in a week. sadly, some people are going to doubt, but that's how the world works. Anyhow, I'm here to relay that info and point people out what has worked for me. Besides, the point of the program i'm going about loosing weight is, not just to loose weight, but to reset my metabolism to its original state and not worrying about gaining weight so fast.
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CMO
New Member
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Posted: 23 Apr 2007 02:47 am |
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How did you lose weight so fast? I've heard of this book, and I've been told his "recommendations" are ridiculous. Shots and colon flushes and organic foods (which are good), but the normal person has neither the time or means to follow this plan!
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Paco
New Member
| Joined: | 18 Apr 2007 |
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| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: 23 Apr 2007 03:28 am |
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| Well, the book specifies certain things and the book does say that it can be a bit hard to do everything, but if some of the things are followed in phase 1, phase 2 would be alot easier. I'm just going about how the book does and I am not doing everything that they recommend, because i'm like you, I don't have the time to do everything!:-)
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Desireangel
New Member
| Joined: | 13 Mar 2007 |
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| Posts: | 20 |
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Posted: 23 Apr 2007 05:14 am |
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| What book is it & by whom? Thanks Rosy
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 23 Apr 2007 06:47 am |
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Paco wrote: the book "The Weight Loss Cure They Don't Want You To Know About"
by Kevin Trudeau. (see above!)
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thekid127
New Member
| Joined: | 26 May 2007 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 26 May 2007 11:06 pm |
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- To say that hCG can be fatal is absolutely absurd.
- It is derived from pregnant women's urine.
- It is human and absolutely all natural.
- If you know of a pregnant woman,
- -And you don't like talking shots..
- I've heard you can get the same results or better from taking an enema with the urine of a pregnant woman.
- If you don't have access to a pregnant woman's urine,
- Naturalhcg.com is a terrific site for all your hCG info.
- You can download Dr. Simeon's book for FREE at naturalhcg.com
- I am very satisfied with their service.
Last edited on 26 May 2007 11:23 pm by
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fsahurie
New Member
| Joined: | 6 Dec 2005 |
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| Posts: | 413 |
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Posted: 28 May 2007 07:07 pm |
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Arent these pills hazardous to ones health?
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Paco
New Member
| Joined: | 18 Apr 2007 |
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| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: 28 May 2007 10:55 pm |
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HCG are not pills. these are injections. and no, they are not hazarous.
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fsahurie
New Member
| Joined: | 6 Dec 2005 |
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| Posts: | 413 |
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Posted: 29 May 2007 12:00 am |
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Paco wrote: they are not hazarous.
Well, as opposed to what solo_bx said, there are different opinions regarding this.First you say Diet Coke(with no calories) make people gain weight, and now you are saying that another non natural thing is healthy?I do beg to differ......
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Paco
New Member
| Joined: | 18 Apr 2007 |
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| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: 29 May 2007 05:10 am |
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Actually, HCG is all natural. it's a hormone created by pregnant women.
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fsahurie
New Member
| Joined: | 6 Dec 2005 |
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| Posts: | 413 |
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Posted: 29 May 2007 04:16 pm |
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Paco wrote: hormone created by pregnant women.
Now, if that text would be in the middle and front of the pill case and box, that brand or company would run out of business!
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Peter
Founder of this forum
| Joined: | 24 May 2005 |
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| Posts: | 4180 |
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Posted: 4 Jun 2007 12:18 am |
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fsahurie,
You could be right, but it could be worse. A friend recently had parts of a  put into them in an operation.
Come to think of it, if you have ever eaten a hot dog... well, I don't think you would have if you knew what they contained.
Hint: Note that pure beef doesn't mean that it's all meat. Just all from a  .
Peter
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Paco
New Member
| Joined: | 18 Apr 2007 |
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| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: 4 Jun 2007 02:09 am |
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It's sad how people believe the craziest things and don't focus on the positive side of things. There are over 6 Billion people in this sphere and you are talking about pigs and cows. Where in the world did you come out with that idea!?!? Dude, Women are getting pregnanat everyday, I know the moral of your story, but what do cows and pigs and meat have to do with the subject at hand???
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Peter
Founder of this forum
| Joined: | 24 May 2005 |
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| Posts: | 4180 |
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Posted: 4 Jun 2007 03:21 am |
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Paco,
fsahurie thought it would scare people away to hear that HCG could be tied in to pregnant woman.
I was trying to say that wasn't so awful. After all, people are taking parts from pigs every day and people don't think anything of it.
Further, they would be horrified to find what they eat in hot dogs every day.
So my thought was that perhaps there was no need to fuss about HCG being tied to pregnant woman.
Peter Dude
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Paco
New Member
| Joined: | 18 Apr 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: 4 Jun 2007 11:53 am |
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opps, my mistake!:-)
i misunderstood and a guy like myself is hard to admit when he's in the wrong, but I am!:-)
let's carry on, sha'll we!?!?
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Desireangel
New Member
| Joined: | 13 Mar 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 20 |
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Posted: 9 Dec 2007 12:28 am |
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Hi,
I`m doing the HCG diet doing well on it. Started Monday lost 8lbs and feel so much better. Let me know if you need any other INfo. Rosy
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Paco
New Member
| Joined: | 18 Apr 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 26 |
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Posted: 9 Dec 2007 03:46 pm |
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Ok, what solo stated is completely incorrect. I have seen results and there has not been nothing better in my life that I have tried that has not work. I can recommend you read Weight loss cure they don't want you to know about. by Kevin Trudeau. if you feel that the information in that book is ilegitimate, you could disregard this reply and continue with your search. the reason why the FDA vanned HCG was because they knew this product would bring their investments down and they would lose millions dollars. The product works, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Here's a prime example of what the FDA has covered up:
youtube.com/watch?v=XS3mhjt7TrY
Naturally, Bayer has fiercely denied these claims, claiming that the drug was infected without there knowledge; however, inside documents prove them to have been trying to work with the FDA to cover up the issue.
What happened: Bayer came out with a drug for hemophiliacs. However, it was quickly discovered that the drug (which was made primarily of human blood products) was tainted with the AIDS virus. The FDA wouldn't allow Bayer toi sell the drug domestically, so they sold it overseas, specifically in France, Spain, and Japan among other places. So thousands of innocent hemophiliacs and their families have been infected with the virus.
The allegation: It is alleged that Bayer knew about the fact that the drug was tainted and told the FDA to keep things under wraps while they made a profit off of a drug that infected its patients. If these allegations are true, then both Bayer and the FDA are at fault for this catastrophe.
The defense: Bayer claims that it did not know about the drugs being contaminated or the repercussions of selling the tainted drug at the time (this was before alot was known about AIDS).
What do you think? Does corporate greed justify ignorance?
Last edited on 9 Dec 2007 03:53 pm by
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rcurtin2
New Member
| Joined: | 3 Mar 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 4 Mar 2008 12:34 am |
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Solo-bx, where do you get your information? There are so many errors in what you wrote. hCG is a peptide but is not classified as a hormone. It is present in all people in all tissues,although the medical field does not understand it role outside of pregnancy and to stimulate the gonads. Since it is a peptide produced by all humans, how do you know what it is intended to do? Why is it produce by an infant or todler? Why is it in all their tissues? It is removed form urine, but remains the same as it was in the bloodstream, it is not altered to become a drug. It is still just the same peptide.
It has never been banned by the FDA and has been available continuously. They did issue an advisory that they found no evidence it helped people lose weigth and therefore should not be used as a weight loss drug. However the studies they used showed that on a Very low calorie diet, both hCG and placebo patients lost the same amount of weight. Their studies did not measure where the weight was lost, if the body was reshaped in either group, or if the weight was regained in either group. So the FDA studies does not at all address the claims of those who advocate the use of hCG for weight loss. It is ocnsidered an off label use. It is not illegal for a medical doctor to precribe it.
The use of hCG has a very low incidence of any side effects. Death was not one of them. No one has ever died due to administration of hCG. If it caused death, pregnant women would be dropping like flies as the amount of hCG in pregnant women is thousands of times the amount one would find in the bloodstream of the dieters.
The question remains if it resets the hypothamus as claimed. I wish our government would take an honest look at the issue.
You lying to desperate people does not help anyone.
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GoodStew
New Member
| Joined: | 24 Jun 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 24 Jun 2008 11:17 pm |
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rcurtin2,
Thank you for the information you posted. You seem to be one of the few in this forum that has any straight answers. I personally have lost 23 lbs. in 30 days using this protocol, and am having no problem keeping it off. I know I would never have been able to maintain a 500 cal. diet, without the hCG protocol, yet the studies insist that there was no difference between hCG and the placebo. Furthermore, I have never felt better. I will begin another round of hCG in about a week to lose the remaining 24 lbs.
My question for you is, can you tell me where I can find any medical documentation and/or legal information that supports this protocol? You posted that the FDA did not ban it, and that it IS legal. Those who criticize it, maintain there are countless studies prooving it's inefficacy and detrimental to one's health. I need something substantial, like studies or documentation, to throw back at them. I don't even tell people the truth about how I lost the weight anymore because I'm tired of arguing with them. I'm tired of having to deffend what I'm doing. Can you steer me in the right direction? GS
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katiepen
New Member
| Joined: | 27 May 2008 |
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| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: 25 Jun 2008 01:06 pm |
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It's unbelievable that the FDA tries to say that there was no difference between the hcg and the placebo group. I don't know about any of you but if I was on a 500 calorie diet without any help from the hcg I would be insane and dying of starvation. This was well pointed out when my body became immune to the hcg at 5 weeks, which it does at 5-6 weeks. You have to take 6 weeks off with no sugars or starch and then do another round. Anyway last week which was my 5th week on Wed I started to get really hungry. On Thursday I woke up starving and by lunch I was ravenous and losing my mind. Keep in mind that I had been on this diet for 5 weeks and the whole time I had little to no hunger and I was full of energy. I finally realized that the hcg was not working any more and it was time to take 6 weeks off. The difference was so huge, it is completely obvious how well the hcg works at releasing enough calories of fat to nourish you and keep you from being hungry.
This is the 2nd time that I have done this diet. I did it last year and lost 30 pounds in 5 weeks. Unfortunately I gained the weight back because I didn't finish phase 3 as outlined in Kevin Trudeau's book The Weight Loss Cure They Don't Want You to Know About. I had friends who did the diet right after me and have kept the weight off for over 1 year by finishing phase 3 and living following the principles in phase. This time I have lost 22 pounds so far and you'd better believe that I will finish phase 3&4 and keep the weight off. And the best part is the body reshaping, not just pounds lost. The 22 pounds I've lost looks more like 40. The hcg causes your body to release adipose fat and not muscle or structural fat. Look into the studies, there are a ton of them out there.
And for you Kevin Trudeau naysayers out there. The man has a past, so what!! He is just a reporter, he has extensively researched this diet. This is not his therapy, he's just reporting on it. Do your own research, this works.
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HCGDietDallas
New Member
| Joined: | 2 Jul 2010 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 5 |
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Posted: 2 Jul 2010 06:09 pm |
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HCG DIET DALLAS is now taking appointments for the HCG Diet Protocol in Dallas, TX.
(972) 596-6181
Here is what our program entails.
1) Lab Testing
2) Meet with our Physician
3) HCG protocol via injections or sublingual.
4) Weekly monitoring appointments
5) Weekly B-12 & Lipotropic injections
If needed,
- Appetite Suppressants
Attached Image (viewed 7853 times):
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adipex
Past Member
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 07:18 am |
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Thanks for the great infomtaion
HCG are not medicine. it is injections.
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suenos
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 01:12 pm |
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| HGC had some valid medical uses, but for weight loss (whether in drop or injection form) it is a simply a profitable scam that preys on people desperate to lose a lot of weight in a short period of time. A quick scan on Pubmed or Medline will show study after study after study, all conducted by established, reputable medical researchers, reporting the exact same findings....there is no relationship between HGC and weight loss. Yes, people following the HGC protocol lose a lot of weight in a short time frame - as would ANYONE eating 500 calories a day.
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HCGDietDallas
New Member
| Joined: | 2 Jul 2010 |
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| Posts: | 5 |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 02:19 pm |
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suenos wrote: HGC had some valid medical uses, but for weight loss (whether in drop or injection form) it is a simply a profitable scam that preys on people desperate to lose a lot of weight in a short period of time. A quick scan on Pubmed or Medline will show study after study after study, all conducted by established, reputable medical researchers, reporting the exact same findings....there is no relationship between HGC and weight loss. Yes, people following the HGC protocol lose a lot of weight in a short time frame - as would ANYONE eating 500 calories a day.
1)     hCG is not a scam. I own an hCG diet clinic in Dallas (http://hCGDietDallas.us)
2)     RE-Read those clinical trials you referenced. I challenge you to find me a clinical trial where ?����?�body fat?����?� was used as the unit of measure instead of ?����?�weight?����?�. Of course you will lose the same amount of weight.
3)     Here is a pic of my friend Joe(see attachment). He worked out while on the hCG diet and gained 12 lbs of muscle while losing 30 lbs of fat all within 30 days.Â
4)     Here is a pic of David(see attachment). David intentionally gained weight so he could swim the English Channel. Afterwards he was having trouble losing the weight. He lost 63 lbs. I will admit that his success is not typical. He lost about 2lbs of body fat every day. Most people start losing 2lbs then slow down to half a pound per day.
5)Â Â Â Â Â Please explain to me how someone could take a placebo on a 500 calorie diet and gain muscle?
6)     I personally challenge you. If you or someone you know lives near Dallas I will put them on my hCG program at cost and guarantee results. If they don?�������t lose body fat I will refund the money and never sell our hCG diet program again. If they do lose 0.4-2lbs of body fat per day I want you to post before/after pics on this blog & apologize for spreading misinformation.
Â
 Last edited on 4 Nov 2016 07:22 pm by
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suenos
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 02:53 pm |
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HCGDietDallas wrote:
I personally challenge you. If you or someone you know lives near Dallas I will put them on my hCG program at cost and guarantee results. If they don?óÔé¼Ôäót lose body fat I will refund the money and never sell our hCG diet program again. If they do lose 0.4-2lbs of body fat per day I want you to post before/after pics on this blog & apologize for spreading misinformation.
When it comes to what I'm willing to put into my body, or encourage others to put into their bodies, I prefer to go with scientific, fact-based data generated by independent researchers with no financial stake in the outcome rather than anecdotes and pretty internet before and after pictures...I'm funny like that.
But, I really like a good challenge. So, here's a better idea..how about you produce one, just one, double-blind clinical trial that has been peer-reviewed, duplicated by other researchers with similar results and published in a major medical journal showing that HGC is effective for weight loss and I'll happy concede that you are right.....
no pretty pics, no testimonies, just something simple like this:
Human chorionic gonadotrophin and weight loss. A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.
Bosch B, Venter I, Stewart RI, Bertram SR.
Department of Medical Physiology and Biochemistry, University of Stellenbosch, Parowvallei, CP.
Abstract
Low-dose human chorionic gonadotrophin (HCG) combined with a severe diet remains a popular treatment for obesity, despite equivocal evidence of its effectiveness. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled study, the effects of HCG on weight loss were compared with placebo injections. Forty obese women (body mass index greater than 30 kg/m2) were placed on the same diet supplying 5,000 kJ per day and received daily intramuscular injections of saline or HCG, 6 days a week for 6 weeks. A psychological profile, hunger level, body circumferences, a fasting blood sample and food records were obtained at the start and end of the study, while body weight was measured weekly. Subjects receiving HCG injections showed no advantages over those on placebo in respect of any of the variables recorded. Furthermore, weight loss on our diet was similar to that on severely restricted intake. We conclude that there is no rationale for the use of HCG injections in the treatment of obesity.
OR THIS:
The effect of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) in the treatment of obesity by means of the Simeons therapy: a criteria-based meta-analysis.
Lijesen GK, Theeuwen I, Assendelft WJ, Van Der Wal G.
Institute for Research in Extramural Medicine, Faculty of Medicine, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
Abstract
1. A meta-analysis was conducted to assess if there is scientific ground for the use of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) as adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity. 2. Published papers relating to eight controlled and 16 uncontrolled trials that measured the effect of HCG in the treatment of obesity were traced by computer-aided search and citation tracking. 3. The trials were scored for the quality of the methods (based on four main categories: study population, interventions, measurement of effect, and data presentation and analysis) and the main conclusion of author(s) with regard to weight-loss, fat-redistribution, hunger, and feeling of well-being. 4. Methodological scores ranged from 16 to 73 points (maximum score 100), suggesting that most studies were of poor methodological quality. Of the 12 studies scoring 50 or more points, one reported that HCG was a useful adjunct. The studies scoring 50 or more points were all controlled. 5. We conclude that there is no scientific evidence that HCG is effective in the treatment of obesity; it does not bring about weight-loss of fat-redistribution, nor does it reduce hunger or induce a feeling of well-being.
----OR THIS:
Risk-benefit analysis of a hCG-500 kcal reducing diet (cura romana) in females]
[Article in German]
Rabe T, Richter S, Kiesel L, Runnebaum B.
Abstract
The British physician A.T.W. Simeons described in 1954 a new method for dieting. He combined a reduction diet (500 kcal per day) with daily injections of the pregnancy hormone human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) (125 IU i.m.). According to Simeons the patient should not lose more weight during a 4-to-6 weeks' diet than without hCG, but the injections should facilitate to maintain the diet and to lose body weight at specific parts of the body (e.g. hip, belly, thigh). After the first publication various studies conducted with male and female patients analysed the efficacy of the "Cura romana". 10 of these studies showed positive and another 10 studies negative results with regard to hCG-related weight reduction. Two of these studies with positive results were double-blind studies (hCG vs. placebo). Most of them were reports on therapeutical experiences and were not controlled studies. According to these reports the body proportions normalized and the feeling of hunger was tolerable. Four out of 10 studies with negative results were controlled studies (hCG vs. control without hCG), whereas 6 were double-blind studies. These studies showed a significant weight reduction during dieting, but no differences between treatment groups in respect of body weight, body proportions and feeling of hunger. One of them is the only German study conducted by Rabe et al. in 1981 in which 82 randomised premenopausal volunteers had been dieting either with hCG or without hCG injections. In recent publications describing mostly well-documented double-blind studies authors largely reject hCG administration in dieting. Supporters of the hCG diet must prove the efficacy of this method in controlled studies according to the German Drug Law. Until then the opinion of the German steroid toxicology panel is still valid, that hCG is ineffective in dieting and should not be used (Bolt 1982 a, 1982 b).
Last edited on 15 Jul 2010 02:56 pm by suenos
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HCGDietDallas
New Member
| Joined: | 2 Jul 2010 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 5 |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 06:56 pm |
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Here you go. It's ok if you don't admit I am right. I wish you would take me up on my offer. To quote your own research hCG is harmless.
Sorry if this is hard to read, this comment toolbar is playing games with me.
The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
1. Am J Clin Nutr. 1973 Feb;26(2):211-8.
Effect of human chorionic gonadotrophin on weight loss, hunger, and feeling ofwell-being.
Asher WL, Harper HW.
PMID: 4574032 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Can be viewed at: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/26/2/211
Findings are in line with other clinical research:
Lebon P. Treatment of overweight patients with chorionic gonadotropin. J Am Geriat Soc. 1966;14:116.
Lebon P. Action of chorionic gonadotrophin in the obese. Lancet. 1961;2:268.
Simeons AT. The action of chorionic gonadotrophin in the obese. Lancet. 1954 Nov 6;267(6845):946-7.
Stuart C. The action of chorionic gonadotophin in the obese. Lancet. 1961;278(7196):268-9.
You made a very good point when you said ?óÔé¼?ôI prefer to go with scientific, fact-based data generated by independent researchers with no financial stake in the outcome?óÔé¼?Ø. If you follow the rabbit hole deep enough I am willing to bet you will find at least one of the following groups who stand to benefit from negative hCG research and publicity:
?é?À Pharmaceutical Company
o You can?óÔé¼Ôäót patent hCG
?é?À the American Society of Bariatric Physicians
o hCG is alternative to bariatric surgery.
I will also reiterate what I said in a previous post. I challenge you to find me one double blind clinical trial where hCG protocol was correctly followed and body fat was used as the unit of measure. Below are my replies to the abstracts you quoted.
1. Human chorionic gonadotrophin and weight loss. A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.
Bosch B, Venter I, Stewart RI, Bertram SR.
a. No mention to hCG dietary protocol except the quantity of calories.
b. The hCG injection protocol is incorrect.
c. Weight was used instead of body fat.
2. The effect of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) in the treatment of obesity by means of the Simeons therapy: a criteria-based meta-analysis.
Lijesen GK, Theeuwen I, Assendelft WJ, Van Der Wal G.
a. This isn?óÔé¼Ôäót a clinical trial, but study of all previous hCG clinical trials.
b. QUOTE: ?óÔé¼?ôMethodological scores ranged from 16 to 73 points (maximum score 100), suggesting that most studies were of poor methodological quality.?óÔé¼?Ø
c. ANOTHER QUOTE ?óÔé¼?ôOnly six of the 14 RCTs used a standard Simeons regimen only [29, 31,35, 36, 37, 39]. Only a small minority reported on all four major outcomes (weight-loss, fat-redistribution, hunger, feeling of well-being)?óÔé¼?Ø
a. Out of all the clinical trials studied only 6 followed hCG protocol?!?!
b. 100% used weight instead of bodyfat.
d. Table 3 blatantly discredits even the highest scoring clinical trials.
a. Ie. Amount of hCG dose not mentioned in study
e. Table 4 further shows that not one of these studies followed hCG protocol past phase I.
f. Their conclusion ?óÔé¼?ôAlthough the maximum score is almost impossible to reach, the average score for the published studies is low.?óÔé¼?Ø
g. My conclusion: Quoting this clinical trial may look like it gives your argument credibility, but it discredits 100% of clinical studies done prior to 1995.
3. Risk-benefit analysis of a hCG-500 kcal reducing diet (cura romana) in females]
[Article in German]
Rabe T, Richter S, Kiesel L, Runnebaum B.
a. This is also not a clinical trial but a study of previous clinical trials.
b. I don?óÔé¼Ôäót read German and I can?óÔé¼Ôäót find the English version. Please give me a link if possible. I really would be interested in reading this one in its entirety.
c. It makes reference to weight reduction being the most important factor in determining whether hCG is effective instead of body fat.
I am really enjoying this debate and I would love to possibly transcribe it into a podcast. I will give credit to ww.TheLegacyWebsite.com, Suenus, etc.
Furthermore, Suenos is obviously highly intelligent and makes excellent points. I would never sell something I do not believe in or that might harm someone. To be honest, I initially refused to sell hCG. I did what Suenos probably did. I sought out the opinions and research of physicians, scientists and entities of authority on the subject of hCG. After 3 months of study I came to the conclusion similar to these studies, that hCG was not harmful, but only as effective as a placebo. At the 8th month mark that is when I ran into Joe (testimonial above) and asked what in the world helped him lose that weight. I went back and began reading about hCG again and started seeing holes and inconsistencies in anti-hCG research and publicity.
Attached Image (viewed 7216 times):
 Last edited on 15 Jul 2010 07:06 pm by HCGDietDallas
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suenos
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 16 Jul 2010 02:29 am |
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Hiya again HGCDIETDALLAS:
First, I form my opinions of fitness and nutrition related issues on facts and reasonable theories as they are known at the time. What is understood about the human body is constantly changing as new information becomes available and I have zero problems going ?óÔé¼?ôwhoops, I was dead wrong?óÔé¼?Ø and changing that opinion if there are sufficient underlying facts to warrant taking a second look. A good example is that once upon a time I ?óÔé¼?ôunderstood?óÔé¼?ô (and was actually formally taught) that there was a significant metabolic advantage to eating six times a day - and that?óÔé¼Ôäós what I firmly believed. Since then, there have been a number of studies which how shown that the primary advantage is not physiological, but primarily psychological (I.e. compliance related), and I was totally comfortable changing positions - because that?óÔé¼Ôäós what the facts warranted.
Note that I said ?óÔé¼?ônew information?óÔé¼?Ø?óÔé¼?ª.Why I?óÔé¼Ôäóm gonna admit that I?óÔé¼Ôäóm not looking at these studies you highlighted because they are 90% all conducted in the 50?óÔé¼Ôäós or early 60?óÔé¼Ôäós?óÔé¼?ªand the results are not duplicated in more recent trials.
There are some things we agree on.
I agree with you that there is nothing apparently harmful in the use of hCG for weight loss. Whether I agree that there is nothing long-term harmful in following a medically unsupervised VLC diet of 500 cals a day is a different story. And, frankly from what I have seen on the forums, most people are not being medically supervised.
I also totally agree that neither Big Pharma nor Bariatric physicians stand to profit from negative hCG research. This is less important to me than who does stand to profit from studies showing the efficacy of certain protocols. Following your rabbit down its dark little hole I?óÔé¼Ôäóm left wondering: who financially benefits from using 50 year old studies with questionable methodology to show the efficacy of hGC while discounting more recent studies showing the lack of efficacy.
You took issue with ?óÔé¼?ôThe effect of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) in the treatment of obesity by means of the Simeons therapy: a criteria-based meta-analysis.
Lijesen GK, Theeuwen I, Assendelft WJ, Van Der Wal G.?óÔé¼?Ø because it?óÔé¼Ôäós not a clinical trial but a ?óÔé¼?ôstudy of all previous HCG trials.?óÔé¼?Ø Yea, that was the point of including it. It?óÔé¼Ôäós called a meta analysis. When there are several studies on the same subject, it?óÔé¼Ôäós always helpful to find a meta analysis. The textbook definition of a meta analysis is: ?óÔé¼?ôSystematic reviews aim to minimize bias and random error by using rigorous and reproducible methods. When combined with meta-analyses, to synthesize the evidence quantitatively, the techniques may generate new information not available from individual studies.?óÔé¼?Ø
I?óÔé¼Ôäóm not being funny here, but read this again, and read it carefully, and I think that you?óÔé¼Ôäóll understand that one of the conclusions is that the methodology of the earlier studies basically sucked, which is why the ?óÔé¼?ôpositive?óÔé¼?Ø results from the older studies are discredited.About the German translation: that?óÔé¼Ôäós pretty simple. Just download a translator and paste the study in, it will translate for ya?óÔé¼?ª.easy peasy.
Finally, you talked about body fat being used as criteria instead of weight. Frankly, I didn?óÔé¼Ôäót really look for that particular specific; I just picked up two of the more recent double-blind studies (which are the only ones I pretty much give any credence to) and a meta analysis. I?óÔé¼Ôäóll see if I can find anything on that tomorrow?óÔé¼?ª.unless I am distracted first by a bright shiny object?óÔé¼?ªI have short attention span sometimes. But, the only thing I have to offer in that respect at present is that the meta analysis did specifically mention ?óÔé¼?ôit does not bring about weight-loss of fat-redistribution.?óÔé¼?Ø
In the same vein, you talk about finding a ?óÔé¼?ôdouble blind clinical trial where hCG protocol is being correctly followed and body fat used as the unit of measure. ?óÔé¼?ô Now that sounds darn good to me. Is there one? An independent clinic trial done in the last 10 years, with results duplicated by a second set of researchers that conclusively determines that individuals following the protocol combined with a 500 cal a day intake are losing primarily body fat while retaining or actually gaining lean muscle mass? Point me to that.
I don?óÔé¼Ôäót question your motives in selling hCG?óÔé¼?ªyou say you believe in its safety and effectiveness, and since I don?óÔé¼Ôäót know you, I have zero reason to doubt your sincerity. I?óÔé¼Ôäóm just saying that I personally think: 1) it?óÔé¼Ôäós a waste of money. Barring medical complications there is no one who cannot be successful in losing weight while retaining lean muscle mass simply by eating a nutritious diet while maintaining a reasonable deficit and proper exercise including both cardio and lifting. It?óÔé¼Ôäós not super fast, and it?óÔé¼Ôäós not sexy, but it?óÔé¼Ôäós effective - and practically free. And my second objection is simply that the claims made by hGC salesmen are, from what I can determine, pretty unsubstantiated by hard , recent, and independently verifiable data.
And, yea, I think debate is fun sometimes?óÔé¼?ªbut now I?óÔé¼Ôäóm off ?óÔé¼?£cause?óÔé¼?ªlook bright shiny object.
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HCGDietDallas
New Member
| Joined: | 2 Jul 2010 |
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| Posts: | 5 |
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Posted: 16 Jul 2010 01:42 pm |
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1) Our physiology has not changed since in the past hundred years.
?é?á?é?á ?é?á ?é?á ?é?á ?é?á
Your analogy doesn't make sense in comparison to a clinical trial. ?é?áIf a clinical trial produced statistics detailing the benefit of a certain method of dieting, and 50yrs later a new clinical study showed a better method of dieting then does mean the first clinical study's statistics were inaccurate? No, it means the old diet method was good, but the new one was better. ?é?áData does not change, the variables, discussion & conclusions do.
2) Meta-Analysis
My critic was with how you used this in your argument. ?é?áThe researchers in multiple locations point out how 100% of the clinical trials were faulty and weak in every area of their clinical study. ?é?áIf the reliability of data is weak, then what credibility should be given to their conclusions??é?á
As for their conclusion itself, their goal of the study was to #1 determine if previous hCG clinical studies were correctly performed and #2 using this information does it work. ?é?áThe answer to #1 was that they weren't correctly performed and #2 based on this flawed data they determined hCG was ineffective.?é?á
3) The high and mighty clinical trial.
You place WAY to much trust in clinical trials. ?é?áIf clinical trials told the truth then smoking doesn't cause cancer and Tylenol doesn't destroy your liver. The sad truth is that clinical trials can be bought. Where you aware that it is not illegal for FDA employees to also work for pharmaceutical companies? Additionally, researchers who produce a clinical study that benefit a company are allowed different forms of compensation.
4) Why would they not follow hCG protocol
My point is that you need to examine the clinical study and compare it to hCG protocol. The Meta-Analysis you quoted showed a table showing that hCG injections were not given according to protocol in any of the clinical studies. If the goal is to prove or disprove previous hCG clinical studies why in world would you deviate from the hCG protocol. This only makes sense if you are already looking for a particular result.
5) Recent Clinical Studies
I did a little search and could not find one positive or negative double blind clinical study produced within the past decade. ?é?áThe only clinical trial you quoted was 20 years old. The reason for this is that there is no money in it. However, you can bet that with the recent popularity the hCG diet the pharmaceuticals and the American Bariatric Association will push one through.
6) I do agree with you
hCG should only be used under direct medical supervision. ?é?áAt http://hCGDietdallas.us, ?é?áwe do a barrage of lab tests before, during and after you reach your desired body fat percentage. A doctor is on staff and personally reviews and monitors progress. ?é?áPatients come in weekly and are called at least once in between their appointments to make sure protocol is followed. ?é?áAs you can see from the results of the clinical trials you quoted, it is very crucial to follow hCG protocol to the letter.
?é?á
?é?á?é?á
?é?á?é?á ?é?á ?é?á
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suenos
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 16 Jul 2010 02:42 pm |
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Okay, I?óÔé¼Ôäóll make this short and simple cause I don?óÔé¼Ôäót think that there is any remote possibility that either of us will change the other?óÔé¼Ôäós mind. And frankly I imagine that your interest in the topic is far greater than mine because you have a financial stake in it and for me it?óÔé¼Ôäós just one of those tangential areas of the weight loss world.
Three points:
1. Nope, physiology doesn?óÔé¼Ôäót change in 50 years, but our understanding of it does change. New information develops and old assumptions/theories are then re-examined to be reinterpreted or discarded altogether. Actually, a close read would show that we are talking about the same thing, but chosing to address it from different ends for obvious reasons.
2. The point made by the Meta analysis was that the old studies which showed the effectiveness of the protocol were flawed in methodology - flawed studies produce flawed results. Yet these are the studies most often cited by hCG's proponents when asked to cite scientific sources. (I've been in this rodeo before, the horses haven't changed). IMO it?óÔé¼Ôäós disingenuous, at best, to use old, flawed studies to lend scientific credence to selling a particular product. Therefore newer studies with proper mythology that still duplicate the positive findings of the older studies are what need to be viewed to establish the claims of hCG. proponents. Again, I'd love to see one.
3. Clinical trials are by no means the only information that should be looked at when making nutrition/fitness decisions - but they should very much be considered, and in the hierarchy of "who you gonna trust?óÔé¼?Ø - sorry but I give more credence to a double-blind study replicated in multiple instances among independent, multicultural researchers which produce consistently similar results over anecdotal ?óÔé¼?ôit worked for me?óÔé¼Ôäó testimonials accompanied by the wow factor of ?óÔé¼?ôbefore and after?óÔé¼?Ø internet pics. But, hey, that?óÔé¼Ôäós just me.
People that believe the claims are gonna pay money for it, people that are skeptical are not. Frankly my only hope is that this brief exchange causes at least one person considering going that route to sit down and reconsider before shelling out their cash. But I have no great illusions - people have always been easily convinced that fast and easy is better than slow and difficult.
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mikeb3333
New Member
| Joined: | 23 Nov 2010 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: 23 Nov 2010 04:39 pm |
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I started the HCG diet at Southwestern in Plano two months ago. I have lost 66lbs in two months. I have been exercising about two times a week. i simply do not feel hungry. I have been counting calories and can not do 500 a day. i have been doing 1000-1200 calories a day and the weight just falls off. This HCG stuff really does work. I am determined to keep it off this time. Southwestern 972-381-4220 they only charged me $300 for a 60 day program. I thought this was a great deal because it does work!
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mikeb3333
New Member
| Joined: | 23 Nov 2010 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: 27 Nov 2010 02:45 pm |
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The HCG Diet really does work. i started this diet program just a few months ago and have already lost a total of 90 lbs. Southwestern in Plano has the three month program for about three hundred dollars. This was the best deal I found on HCG by far.
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me
New Member
| Joined: | 16 Mar 2011 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 06:44 pm |
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This place is a scam! I tried their HCG diet and did not lose any weight. They do not use the real hcg, nor b-12. This is truely a rip off!!! PLEASE BEWARE
HCGDietDallas wrote:
HCG DIET DALLAS is now taking appointments for the HCG Diet Protocol in Dallas, TX.
(972) 596-6181
Here is what our program entails.
1) Lab Testing
2) Meet with our Physician
3) HCG protocol via injections or sublingual.
4) Weekly monitoring appointments
5) Weekly B-12 & Lipotropic injections
If needed,
- Appetite Suppressants
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me
New Member
| Joined: | 16 Mar 2011 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 2011 06:47 pm |
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The HCG diet does work, but hcgdietdallas.us is a SCAM!!
HCGDietDallas wrote:
suenos wrote: HGC had some valid medical uses, but for weight loss (whether in drop or injection form) it is a simply a profitable scam that preys on people desperate to lose a lot of weight in a short period of time. A quick scan on Pubmed or Medline will show study after study after study, all conducted by established, reputable medical researchers, reporting the exact same findings....there is no relationship between HGC and weight loss. Yes, people following the HGC protocol lose a lot of weight in a short time frame - as would ANYONE eating 500 calories a day.
1) hCG is not a scam. I own an hCG diet clinic in Dallas (http://hCGDietDallas.us)
2) RE-Read those clinical trials you referenced. I challenge you to find me a clinical trial where ?óÔé¼?ôbody fat?óÔé¼?Ø was used as the unit of measure instead of ?óÔé¼?ôweight?óÔé¼?Ø. Of course you will lose the same amount of weight.
3) Here is a pic of my friend Joe(see attachment). He worked out while on the hCG diet and gained 12 lbs of muscle while losing 30 lbs of fat all within 30 days.
4) Here is a pic of David(see attachment). David intentionally gained weight so he could swim the English Channel. Afterwards he was having trouble losing the weight. He lost 63 lbs. I will admit that his success is not typical. He lost about 2lbs of body fat every day. Most people start losing 2lbs then slow down to half a pound per day.
5) Please explain to me how someone could take a placebo on a 500 calorie diet and gain muscle?
6) I personally challenge you. If you or someone you know lives near Dallas I will put them on my hCG program at cost and guarantee results. If they don?óÔé¼Ôäót lose body fat I will refund the money and never sell our hCG diet program again. If they do lose 0.4-2lbs of body fat per day I want you to post before/after pics on this blog & apologize for spreading misinformation.
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