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rollerderby New Member 
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I have been working out and eating healthy for 3 years with the intention of losing weight. I have gained about 20 pounds in three years. I do crossfit (metabolic conditioning) 3x a week and roller derby practice 2x a week (2 hours). I have been eating between 1600 calories and 2300 calories a day. Usually 2300 on roller derby days. I just had my RMR tested and it is at 1960. I've concluded that I have been unattentionly eating too few calories and my body is intentionally storing fat. I have bumped up my calories to 2400 daily and have stopped the roller derby until I figure out what to do. I'm still doing crossfit. I'm gaining weight. I really don't know what to do. I read online that I should gain weight initially but can't find any consistent answer about the length of time it will take for my body to level out. I don't know how many calories to consume. HELP! |
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Nir Senior Administrator 
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Can you put this in context for me here 1) what is your gender, age, height and weight 2) is 1960 supposed to be 'unadjusted', 'sedentary', 'lightly active' or what? |
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rollerderby New Member
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43 year old female. 6'1" and 200 lbs. I've gained 20 lbs. with diet and exercise over the past 3 years. 1960 is my resting metabolic rate. As in if I layer in bed all day and did absolutely nothing that is how many calories I'd burn. It was a breathing test first thing in the morning and they put a plastic dome over my head and pumped in air and measured something (carbon dioxide?). That number does not include calories used to metabolize food. So I need to add more for that. I also need to add 20-40% for lifestyle. I also need to add exercise. Is my body in starvation mode and storing fat? How do I get out of it? How long does it take to get out of it? Is it normal to gain weight as I'm trying to get out of this mode? How much am I going to gain? When can I try to lose weight again and how many calories should I consume to lose weight without putting my body in starvation mode? I can't find any specifics on this kind of problem. I am still doing crossfit 3x/week and jogging 3 miles 2x/week. I have stopped playing roller derby for 2 hours /twice a week. I have been eating 2300 calories every day for over 2 weeks. I have gained between 7-10 pounds in this 2 weeks. HELP!!!! My goal is 175 pounds. |
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Nir Senior Administrator
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There is some contradiction here. Let's look at the statements. 1) A formula calculation (not measurement) of your RMR (Female, 43, 6'1", 200lb) would give 1690. (energy needs 2620+ for your exercise) 2) Your RMR has been measured as 1960 (16% higher than expected) 3) You have gained 20lb in 3 years 4) you believe your calorie intake over this time has been 1600-2300 5) Your BMI is 26.4 (technically overweight) 6) you are involved in fitness and sports (so perhaps you have more muscle and less fat than a typical person with your stats) Well, the fact that does not fit the others is fact#4. In other words, in order for your RMR to be above average (#2) I would expect you to have been in caloric surplus (not a chronic deficit), this would also be compatible with the weight gain over the last 3 years. In other words, if there is some sort of "systematic error" in the way in which you calculate your calories, you are eating more than you think you are. (In 2009 I thought I was eating 1800 calories but in fact I was eating around 3000 calories, and this misake was eventually traced to the way in which I calorie-counted a single food item. I give myself as proof that this can happen even to someone who thinks they know exactly what they are doing. As soon as I addressed that mistake I started to lose weight. In case you are interested, the food in question was microwaved potatos.) Now you have made two radical changes in the recent past - you have reduced your training and therefore your calorie expenditure and you have further increased calories (to 2300 or 2400, depending on which post I am reading). Regardless of whether my original guess that you are mis-calculating your calories (above) is true or wheher your guess (that you have been in a chronic deficit) is true, such a sudden jump is not advisable. Specifically, the advice for people who have been a a chronic deficit is to increase their calorie intake very gradually, in order to avoid the weight gain. Think about it, if you were at a chronic deficit and your body has become more efficient and requires fewer calories, what is it going to do if yu give it a bunch of calories it does not need? Tell me more about what you are eating and what method you use to count your calories. Be specific. What items do you weigh in grams, what do you measure in cups, what do you "eyeball" and what do you not bother counting and have as a "free" item? Do you use a calculator, spreadsheet, software or a website to figure it all out (which one)? If there is a weakness to your system, what do you suspect it is? This whole business of "starvation mode" only really applies to lean people. You are not even in the normal weight range so unless you have very low body fat (like a body-builder) I suspect not. Also, you have not lost weight in the recent past (your history for the last 3 years is weight gain). Finally, "starvation mode" when it appears (typically for anorexics and other people who are very lean and have eaten below their calorie requirements), their metabolic rate is depressed rather than elevated. For all of those reasons I think that the chance that this is what is happening to you is very unlikely. That is my interpretation of what you've written so far. How have your energy levels been when working out. When I have chronically under-eaten (and been lean, BMI <19.5) I found that this severely affected my workouts, I had hardly any energy. I am suspecting that this does not regualrly apply to you. hope we can get this sorted out |
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rollerderby New Member
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I am very athletic / muscular. I am very proportional but have larger hands, wrists, feet, than most women. I don't think the BMI has ever been an appropriate measure for my body type. My extra weight is in my waist and some in my upper arms / torso. I am very careful measuring my food. I use a food scale and measuring cups and use food labels. I don't eat processed food or junk food. I typically eat lean protein like poultry and shrimp with the occasional steak. I eat a lot of green vegetables. I eat pears, apples, and strawberries. I rarely eat pasta or potatoes. Why can't my body react as if it is in starvation mode. If you take into account that my crossfit workouts are 500 calories, my net calories are 1100 for the day , 900 calories below my RMR. If I take into account my roller derby days and say those workouts are 1200 calories, I also have a deficit of 1000 calories below my RMR. This doesn't even take into account that I need to add more calories in for the rest of my day. I have not had high energy during my workouts. I do them but they are a struggle. I gut them out and just do them. Now that I have been eating more my workouts have been vastly improved. I feel much more energy during and after my workouts. I feel better all day. I don't feel like taking a nap in the afternoon or going to bed early. Eating more is much better. I obviously have not gained 7-10 pounds. I have not consummed 35000 extra calories over 2 weeks. Most if not all has to be water. I feel very bloated. I have days / weeks where I am not at 1600-2300 calories. However I do start again within a couple of days or weeks and am strict again for 2-3 months. On those days 'off' I am probably close to 2500-3500 calories (just guessing). |
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Nir Senior Administrator
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First a note on calorie counting. Food scales are the most accurate way to measure. Food labels can be an issue (for example something might be marked as 35g but they actually give you 45g - they are not "cheating you" out of product but you have consumed +28% more calories, yes this happened to me). Volume measures are also an issue. All of this is a problem proportional to how calorie-dense the food is. (nuts seeds, grains, dried fruit - I'd be cautious of anything > 200 calories per 100g). Ok, I am willing to consider again the theory that you have been under-eating, let me have another go... Let's say your calorie requirements are approximately 2300+workout. So 2800 on cross-fit days and 3500 on roller derby days, and eating 1600/2300 gives a deficit of 700 a day. The data item that is now not quite fit is your above-average metabolism. However you say that you have your "days / weeks" when you do not count calories are and "On those days 'off' I am probably close to 2500-3500 calories (just guessing).", so these might have been helpful with your metabolism. On the other hand the jump up in calories could relate to your weight gain (20lb in 3 years). Again I'll restate that the idea with increasing calories after a period of restriction (be it a period of fasting, anorexica or just a long term deficit) is to do so gradually. -- However you say that you have increased your calories already and this was 2+ weeks ago so I am not sure whether I would recommend scaling calories back or whether all of the 'damage' (weight gain) has already been done. If your average intake was 1800 (5 days at 1600, 2 days at 2300), normally I would have suggested raising this to 1900,2000,2100 etc over time. You're already at 2400. I am (again) not sure what to suggest - should you go back to 2100 and continue increasing from there, or stay at 2400? As far as exercise is concerned, the most radical "metabolism repair" plans cut exercise out completely for a little while (3-4 weeks) before it is gradually re-introduced. You have done some of that. Going forward, you should eventually reach a point of weight stability (no further gain) at which point you may want to create a deficit but this time a more conservative one. You are presenting a confusing (to me) case because many of the features you have would only apply to a lean person who does not have much potential for fat loss. How much fat do you estimate you could stand to lose and still not be too thin? I guess you said you are 200lb and your goal is 175lb (and having gained 20lb you were not far off from that goal 3 years ago). I want to suggest that "starvation mode" is a bit of a misleading term. What usually happens is that a person who is not eating enough and/or is exercising too much experiences a "metabolic adjustment" - their metabolism adjusts, they become more efficient and now they require less energy to live their daily lives and they become subtly 'lethargic' in their activities. Weight gain only then occurs if extra food is consumed (sudden changes). |
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rollerderby New Member
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I was 160-165lbs. before I got married and had 3 kids. I did not diet but was a healthy, big eater and I exercised regularly. I was very lean and muscular but not scrawny. I doubt that I could maintain that. I was hoping to get to 170-175 lbs. three years ago. I'm pretty frustrated now. I was injured last summer and took 8 weeks off from exercising and was able to drop down to 190 without too much effort. I'd like to figure this out with exercise so I can get down to 175. I really don't know what numbers to use. I use myfitnesspal.com to track my calories. One idea is to change my gender to male in myfitnesspal.com. My RMR seems to be in the active range for a male of my height and weight. Maybe I should just use those numbers. If muscle mass is the only difference between a male and female's RMR formula, then I'm probably closer to a male's body type anyway. My legs and butt are probably more muscular than a man's and my arms and shoulders are less (still more than a typical female). If I do so, I can have 2340 calories and lose 1 pound a week. I would then need to add back my calories burned for exercise. Which on crossfit days would get me to 2840 calories. I still don't know if I need to bump up the calories to maintain my weight first for a few weeks. That would bump me up to 2840 calories per week. That seems like a ton. Maybe I'm not in starvation mode. Maybe I'm in between and am storing fat in anticipation of being calorie deprived. I don't know what happens at the cellular level but I'd be interested to know what the fat cells do. Hopefully it is something that can be reversed or changed. |
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rollerderby New Member
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Here is an explanation on fat cells and water retention, Fat cells have a low water content. The increase in water weight is likely refeeding. You are restoring glycogen to liver and muscle and water follows glycogen. |
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Nir Senior Administrator
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glycogen storage is limited (I think it can at most explain 4-6lb of extra weight).change my gender to male [..] I can have 2340 calories and lose 1 pound a week. I would then need to add back my calories burned for exercise. Which on crossfit days would get me to 2840 calories. I think there is a mistake in your calculation, specifically I think you are counting your exercise TWICE. If you are going to count your cross-fit exercise as 500 calories, you should start with the "sedentary" figure and then add 500 to that. So for example, (Male 43 6'1" 200lb) unadjusted RMR 1856. RMR adjusted for "sedentary" 2227. Subtract 500 to lose 1lb a week gives 1727. Add back 500 calories for cross-fit workout: 2227. (still losing 1lb week) |
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rollerderby New Member
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That only makes sense if I stay in bed all day and only get out of bed to do crossfit. You don't make any allowance for actual daily activity. I got the following numbers from the Kineseology Department that calculated my RMR. My starting point is my actual RMR of 1960 calories. Add 10-20% to metabolize food. Add 20-40% for lifestyle. Add exercise. This would be my total for the day. Then subtract 500 calories for a loss of 1 pound per week. My RMR is on the high side of the range for a male my age and size so my lifestyle should not be sedentary but more on the active side. |
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rollerderby New Member
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Correction 5-10% for metabolizing food |
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Nir Senior Administrator
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I do not know what you do in your 'daily life' apart from exercise. Normally, for someone who just works in an office or looks after their home etc. i.e. nothing particularly spectacular apart from when they are exercising, the calculation we usually use around here is (unadjusted RMR) x 1.2 + (exercise) The thermic effect of food is approximated to be about 10% (about 30% for protein, 10% for carbs and next to 0% for fat), the other 10% is to allow for some light activity that is presumed in a sedentary lifestyle. (The activity factors are also listed in http://www.thelegacywebsite.com/tutorial_BMR.php and obtained from McArdle et al 1996.) If your starting point is your measured RMR (at 1960) then there is no need to further adjust it upwards unless you feel that you have a demanding physical job or other habitual day-to-day activities which are difficult to calculate as part of the added-on exercise. It is not necessarily in your interest to over-estimate your caloric requirements. This could lead to you over-consuming calories and wondering why you are not achieving your stated weight-loss goal. The other observation I have is that my suggestion remains for you to make slow gradual changes and your calculation has you eating 2840 calories on crossfit days and still expecting weight loss. My calculations show that it should be 500 less. I am urging some caution. |
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Jacob83 Past Member
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Hey there. Your BMR is 1666. If we factor in the amount of exercise and activity you get I'd put you at 2500 calories roughly to maintain body weight. Since you're trying to cut body fat I'd say shoot for a 25% calorie deficit which puts you at 1850ish calories for safe fat loss. I say fat loss vs weight loss because that will prevent you from plateauing, which is where you burn muscle and store fat or don't lose any weight at all. Additionally it's important to do more than just hit your 1850 calorie target. You'll want to get 3 veggie servings daily, eat clean, and track your nutrition accurately with something like loseit.com Also make sure you don't drink your calories (whey protein shakes or recovery drinks post workout are the only exceptions) NO JUICES! And no diet sodas too. If you need any grocery ideas let me know. I have a blog I wrote for Costco shoppers that want to eat healthy! Msg me and I'll link it to you. Last edited on 28 Apr 2012 03:03 pm by |
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rollerderby New Member
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No, my RMR is 1960. I had it tested and it is higher than normal. I need to start at that number and get to a maintenance number and then a weight loss number. |
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Jacob83 Past Member
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Hmmm interesting. According to the Harris Benedict calculation (the most accurate on paper calculator out there) it says you're at 1666. In EXTREME cases of thyroid problems I've seen people have variances of 100-150 calories. But to have you at 1900+ calories for a BMR is quite unthinkable. It would truly be a rare case that I've never seen before. I've coached quite a few women successfully to their body fat % goals. I'd say give it a shot! |
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rollerderby New Member
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I don't have a thyroid problem because I had that tested. It isn't unthinkable because that is my real number. I would be much thinner if I had a thyroid problem. It probably happens more than people think. People rely on paper calculations and just assume they fit in the normal range. Very few people actually go and get it figured out with the breathing test. |
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Jacob83 Past Member
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Well if it's working for you calculations stick with it! Otherwise you might want to try a second opinion. |
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Nir Senior Administrator
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So how much have you decided to eat for now (on cross-fit days)? |
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rollerderby New Member
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I have an appointment with a dietician in 3 weeks. I entered my numbers into myfitnesspal.com, webmd, mayo metabolism calculator and they all come up with something different. They range from 2200 - 2800. I think I'm going to try 2350 for right now and then add 300 calories on crossfit days. I feel really good at 2350 so I think I'll stick to that. I'll try that until I meet with the dietician. I also read about the Harris Benedict calculations and it is from 1919. I doubt that there were many 6'1" females with muscular builds back then. Women's bodies have change a lot since the early 1900's so I'm not going to get too caught up in that calculation. |
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Jacob83 Past Member
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Sounds like a plan. The most important thing you can do is be consistent. By that I mean eat the same amount of calories every day, and keep your exercise routine consistent. Each week you can weigh in and track your body fat to see where things are moving. If the scale / body fat % isn't moving in the right direction that's when you can play around with your calorie intake. |
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