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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 17 Jul 2011 09:03 pm |
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Response to Why do you want to lose weight?
Do you people realize how much you say I and me.
There is not one altruistic reason listed and therein lies the problem.
Do it for your mate and your kids.
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Tankgirl
Distinguished Member
| Joined: | 1 Jul 2011 |
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| Posts: | 538 |
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Posted: 17 Jul 2011 10:49 pm |
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Weight loss most often is a win-win, unless the spouse has certain issues.
One spouse's health crises become their medical bills and missed work.
More energy = more gets done. Other spouse can do less
http://www.independent.co.uk/student/postgraduate/mbas-guide/overweight-women-are-paid-less-if-they-find-jobs-at-all-say-researchers-706025.html
Overweight women get paid less if they find a job at all.So getting down to a normal weight means that the formerly fat spouse has an advantage over many other job applicants. Where is that money going to go back to the family including the other spouse.
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zenobia
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 18 Jul 2011 04:19 pm |
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Do you people realize how much you say I and me. There is not one altruistic reason listed and therein lies the problem. Do it for your mate and your kids.
why do you assume everyone has a mate and kids? and there are posters who talked about thier mates/kids. read all the way through adrian001 for example. read HRKittredge- she wants to have kids and wants to get in shape for her self and her husband!
and what's wrong with wanting to lose weight for yourself anyway? i mean jeez- do you know what a low self esteem due to weight problems does to a person? i think if a person is in a good place with themselves, it shows, and other people can see that. when you feel positive, you can make other people around you feel positive.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 18 Jul 2011 06:57 pm |
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zenobia wrote: Do you people realize how much you say I and me. There is not one altruistic reason listed and therein lies the problem. Do it for your mate and your kids.
why do you assume everyone has a mate and kids? and there are posters who talked about thier mates/kids. read all the way through adrian001 for example. read HRKittredge- she wants to have kids and wants to get in shape for her self and her husband!
and what's wrong with wanting to lose weight for yourself anyway? i mean jeez- do you know what a low self esteem due to weight problems does to a person? i think if a person is in a good place with themselves, it shows, and other people can see that. when you feel positive, you can make other people around you feel positive.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I am not assuming everyone has a mate but most people here will if they don't already and most will have kids so for them I would say do it for your future mate and kids.
There is nothing "wrong" with doing it for selfish reasons but selfishness is the reason most people get fat and stay fat. It's the I me my syndrome.
The reason to lose weight and not be fat is simple; it's the right thing to do. That is a good answer.
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zenobia
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 18 Jul 2011 07:25 pm |
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i'm not going to argue with you. but i do want to say that i wasn't putting words in your mouth. i just responded to your statement. that is all.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 18 Jul 2011 07:27 pm |
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zenobia wrote: i'm not going to argue with you. but i do want to say that i wasn't putting words in your mouth. i just responded to your statement. that is all.
Yes you were and no you weren't. That is a cheap debate tactic.
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ItsOnlyMe
Member
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Posted: 18 Jul 2011 10:26 pm |
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JSABD wrote:
There is nothing "wrong" with doing it for selfish reasons but selfishness is the reason most people get fat and stay fat. It's the I me my syndrome.
You're quoting George Harrison again (the song I Me Mine).
I think if a reason motivates us to keep going (even if that reason is not 100% altruistic), then it's probably worth holding on to that reason. We might be thinking of our loved ones, and we might also be thinking of ourselves. Whatever motivates us, if it has success, then it's a good thing.
I know what you're saying though. Some selfish reasons don't have enough long term motivational effect. But if we find a reason that does work long term, we should use it.
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 18 Jul 2011 10:47 pm |
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JSABD has a theory about altruistic reasons leading to success and talks about inner- and outer- directed people (in some of the other topics).
I am not sure how to square this with other life experiences.
To go at a slight tangent, some people are taken to Alcoholics Anonymous because of somebody else but ultimately they do not succeed unless they have a 'selfish' recovery, unless they do it for themselves. (put your oxygen mask on first - you're no use to others unless you remain sober.) Alturism then comes into it - finding a new reason for living.
I give some energy to CPH so that we can all have this virtual community yet the vested interest is that I like this unique place and want to see it continue (also perhaps because it is an 'obsessional interest' for me): so selfish or alturistic or both? Besides this commitment I do no other 'volunteering'
I am 38. I think I am most likely to remain single.
I have lost weight when I decided it was "the right thing to do" for me
I also like affirmations, have used them since October 2006 after reading BFFM chapter 1.
EDIT: you don't need to tell me I am ego-centric. Look up ASD, it is part of my make-up to be so. It is my nature.Last edited on 18 Jul 2011 10:49 pm by Nir
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 19 Jul 2011 03:17 pm |
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Nir wrote: JSABD has a theory about altruistic reasons leading to success and talks about inner- and outer- directed people (in some of the other topics).
I am not sure how to square this with other life experiences.
To go at a slight tangent, some people are taken to Alcoholics Anonymous because of somebody else but ultimately they do not succeed unless they have a 'selfish' recovery, unless they do it for themselves. (put your oxygen mask on first - you're no use to others unless you remain sober.) Alturism then comes into it - finding a new reason for living.
I give some energy to CPH so that we can all have this virtual community yet the vested interest is that I like this unique place and want to see it continue (also perhaps because it is an 'obsessional interest' for me): so selfish or alturistic or both? Besides this commitment I do no other 'volunteering'
I am 38. I think I am most likely to remain single.
I have lost weight when I decided it was "the right thing to do" for me
I also like affirmations, have used them since October 2006 after reading BFFM chapter 1.
EDIT: you don't need to tell me I am ego-centric. Look up ASD, it is part of my make-up to be so. It is my nature.
It's more than a theory. Many people who are successful with weight loss list altruistic reasons for why they reformed.
Eating, even eating responsible food is a selfish act. Eating pleasure foods is extremely selfish and self indulgent and I suppose that would be OK if it didn't hurt some many people. Being fat and sickly hurts others. It hurts society and family. It is bad behavior with extreme negative consequences.
Nir you are also fairly logical and rational. Your solution to your compulsive eating was simple, effective and elegant and it worked. Also Nir, you were not obese. You probablky would not have had serious health problems had you maintained your 165 pounds on your 5'5" frame. There are a lot of 5'5" women who think 165 pounds is skinny.... Ah the normalization of obesity!
Have you never considered the impact obesity has on family and society? In spite of your disorder that makes you ego centric I bet you have given it some thought but even at your highest weight you were not a a drain on society. If you were 300 pounds and sucking up medical resources because you were too fat to work. Tragically there are millions of Americans who fall into that category and as unpopular as it is to say.... they have only themselves to blame. I would be lying if I said I didn't have some disdain for people who behave that way and have attitudes that allow them to be so thoughtless and greedy.
We coddle the obese and when someone like me comes along and calls BS we are called the bad guy, Nazi, bigot and troll. We receive death threats, we get our accounts hacked and we get lies spread about us simply for stating our opinion that obesity is in part the result of a moral failing.
Fat people don't want to hear that obesity is their fault but if they would drop their egos long enough to admit is they would realize that they and only they can fix it seeing as how they are the cause. Obviously food means more to them than their health. Instant gratification trumps everything with them and tasty food is the easiest source of instant gratification so they use it.
People like to think they are special and deserve rewards for everything. Today kids on sports teams get trophies and rewards even if they don't win. Most of the food that fat people eat are treats and rewards and they are rewarding themselves for no reason.
You don't have to do it for you and you don't have to do it for anyone else. You don't have to do it but the people who do it with loved ones in mind and personal and social responsibility are the one who have success from what I have observed in that past 10 years or so.
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ItsOnlyMe
Member
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Posted: 19 Jul 2011 07:19 pm |
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JSABD wrote:
Fat people don't want to hear that obesity is their fault
Most overweight people on this forum (including me) DO admit that it's our fault!
And that's why we're taking steps to undo the damage we did to ourselves.
You keep assuming that we're all pointing the fingers of blame at everyone else. We're not! Being fat does not take away our sense of right and wrong! We know who's to blame. We know that it's the result of our own behaviour! We're not looking for a scapegoat (like the food industry, the schools, the governments, or the low-fat craze of the 80s, etc), we know the responsibility rests with us. That's why we're taking the steps to put right what we did wrong.
How is that not wanting to hear it's our fault?
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 23 Jul 2011 01:36 am |
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ItsOnlyMe wrote: JSABD wrote:
Fat people don't want to hear that obesity is their fault
Most overweight people on this forum (including me) DO admit that it's our fault!
And that's why we're taking steps to undo the damage we did to ourselves.
You keep assuming that we're all pointing the fingers of blame at everyone else. We're not! Being fat does not take away our sense of right and wrong! We know who's to blame. We know that it's the result of our own behaviour! We're not looking for a scapegoat (like the food industry, the schools, the governments, or the low-fat craze of the 80s, etc), we know the responsibility rests with us. That's why we're taking the steps to put right what we did wrong.
How is that not wanting to hear it's our fault?
Taking steps and taking the right steps are two different things.
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ItsOnlyMe
Member
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Posted: 25 Jul 2011 06:52 am |
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JSABD wrote:
Taking steps and taking the right steps are two different things.
If the steps we are taking are working successfully, are they not the right steps even if they are slightly different to what you believe?
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PuffsPlus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 25 Jul 2011 10:53 am |
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JSABD wrote: Response to Why do you want to lose weight?
Do you people realize how much you say I and me.
There is not one altruistic reason listed and therein lies the problem.
Do it for your mate and your kids.
JSABD/Chris,
If you ask the question, "Why do YOU want to do XYZ", people will inevitably respond "I want to do XYZ because of ABC." The nature of how you asked the question encourages people to respond with "I".
Also, where is the objective evidence for your claim that fat people say "I and me" more often than lean people. For example, you use the words "I" and "me" very often, I've noticed.
And while we're on the subject of providing objective evidence, where is the objective evidence to back up your repeated claim that people who lost weight for altruistic reasons are more successful than those who lost weight for selfish reasons?
For example, you've recently cited Nir as an example of someone who has successfully kept weight off. But Nir has stated that his reasons for losing weight and maintaining that loss were not altruistic (according to your definition). He is single, having no wife or children. And I have not seen Nir claim that he's lost weight and maintained the loss so he could be a better citizen and role model.
I contend that the following claims you have made are no more than your opinions and do not comport with objective reality:
1) Fat people use the words "I" and "me" more than lean people.
2) People who have lost weight for altruistic reasons are more likely to keep that weight off than people who have lost weight for altruistic reasons.
You keep challenging other people to prove their claims. Here is your chance to prove yours. Go for it!
Last edited on 25 Jul 2011 12:33 pm by PuffsPlus
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TheAntiTroll
New Member
| Joined: | 24 Jul 2011 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 49 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2011 11:47 am |
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He ASSUMES a lot of things: overweight people are lazy, eccentric, and ride 2 seats in buses and airplanes and cost the nation's health budget. Even if you do find statistics you find them from unreliable sources (only peer reviewed and published journals with full abstracts, background, large sample sizes should be included in any sort of evaluation) not urbandictionary.com where some frat boy claims a 150 pound girl is fat.
And even if you claim that these assumptions are personal anecdotes, you are only experiencing your perception of the overweight and applying your already BIASED viewpoint.
There is as much of a claim that "ALL FATS are lazy and cannot eat less than their maintenance as ALL jewish descents are greedy or other stereotypes".
THEY are stereotypes not ABSolute axioms.
So next time you give a major premise such as "do you realize how much you say I and me", realize that you have absolutely no proof or peer reviewed studies that suggest overweight individuals are correlated with a increased usage of "I" and "me" and have a more eccentric psychiatric evaluation than their nonoverweight control group.
As Always~TheAntiTroll
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TheAntiTroll
New Member
| Joined: | 24 Jul 2011 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 49 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2011 11:58 am |
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Also as a response, 40 billion or something is the number you claim that overweight people cause the nation?
What about the 700 Billion bailout so CEO and every employee high on the food chain gets millions and billions of "bonuses" immediately after?
Well lets have a little lesson in macroeconomics. The billions of bonuses gets payed to the 1% wealthy who spends it in the luxury industry such as Sports cars, jewelry, and real estate. These industries are tied with stocks and will improve stockholder's trusts in the American economy and therefore not cause it to fail. Also, these industries provide incomes to the regular people that produce these cars, jewelry, and manage real estates (obviously there are much more industries affected but I am giving a general overview).
Now, for the 40 billion or whatever you quoted before for the money that overweight people costs~ They provide income for pharmaceutical industries, give incentive for students to attend top 20 universities for a MD degree (which I am part of), and provide a chronic customer base for the health industry. What do you think would happen if 40 billion spent in the health industry suddenly become 0? (I am not advocating everyone stay overweight, I am simply stating that you cannot accuse the overweight group for putting their greedy paws on 40 billion for themselves because it is economics) Havoc unleashed!
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 26 Jul 2011 12:44 am |
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TheAntiTroll wrote: He ASSUMES a lot of things: overweight people are lazy, eccentric, and ride 2 seats in buses and airplanes and cost the nation's health budget. Even if you do find statistics you find them from unreliable sources (only peer reviewed and published journals with full abstracts, background, large sample sizes should be included in any sort of evaluation) not urbandictionary.com where some frat boy claims a 150 pound girl is fat.
The do take 2 seats and whine when they have to pay for an extra one.
Here as some unreliable sources. And BTW Eienstien statistical data is not peer reviewed. You have have hear the term peer reviewed but I doubt you know that it means. You have have heard another third rate troll use it on another forum when he was getting betting his butt kicked in a debate.
?σΤιΌ?σ A 2009 study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, along with RTI International (a nonprofit research group), found that the direct and indirect cost of obesity "is as high as $147 billion annually." The study was based on figures collected in 2006.
?σΤιΌ?σ The study found that in 2006, obese patients spent an average of $1,429 more for their medical care than did people within a normal weight range. That is a 42 percent higher cost for people who are obese.
?σΤιΌ?σ The CDC study found that Medicare, Medicaid and private insurers increased spending due to obesity from 6.5 percent in 1998 to 9.1 percent in 2006. The figure includes prescription drug costs.
?σΤιΌ?σ Another 2009 study in the journal Health Affairs concluded that the costs of hospitalizations related to childhood obesity rose from $125.9 million in 2001 to $237.6 million in 2005. Bottom Line: America spends as much as $147 billion annually on the direct and indirect costs of obesity. In the year of the most recent CDC study, 2006, that made up 9.1 percent of medical spending.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/09/fact.check.obesity/index.html
Q: What is the cost of obesity?
A: On average, people who are considered obese pay $1,429 (42 percent) more in health care costs than normal-weight individuals.[12]
What is the cost of obesity by insurance status?
A: For each obese beneficiary:- Medicare pays $1,723 more than it pays for normal-weight beneficiaries.
- Medicaid pays $1,021 more than it pays for normal-weight beneficiaries.
- Private insurers pay $1,140 more than they pay for normal-weight beneficiaries.[12]
What is the cost of obesity by the type of service provided?
A: For each obese patient:- Medicare pays $95 more for an inpatient service, $693 more for a non-inpatient service, and $608 more for prescription drugs in comparison with normal-weight patients.
- Medicaid pays $213 more for an inpatient service,$175 more for a non-inpatient service, and $230 more for prescription drugs in comparison with normal-weight patients.
- Private insurers pay $443 more for an inpatient service, $398 more for a non-inpatient service, and $284 more for prescription drugs in comparison with normal-weight patients.[12]
The study, conducted with Chad Meyerhoefer of Lehigh University, was recently published as a working paper (No. 16467) by the National Bureau of Economic Research, a nonprofit, nonpartisan research organization.
Previous studies have reported that obesity is associated with roughly $1,400 higher annual medical care costs per person. The new study reports that it is more in the range of $2,800. The cost of a case of obesity among recipients of Medicaid, a taxpayer-supported program, is some $3,378 annually in 2005 dollars.
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-10-medical-obesity-soars.html
And even if you claim that these assumptions are personal anecdotes, you are only experiencing your perception of the overweight and applying your already BIASED viewpoint.
There is as much of a claim that "ALL FATS are lazy and cannot eat less than their maintenance as ALL jewish descents are greedy or other stereotypes".
THEY are stereotypes not ABSolute axioms.
So next time you give a major premise such as "do you realize how much you say I and me", realize that you have absolutely no proof or peer reviewed studies that suggest overweight individuals are correlated with a increased usage of "I" and "me" and have a more eccentric psychiatric evaluation than their nonoverweight control group.
As Always~TheAntiTroll
I have something for you that will clear up your brain function.
I think you can stick the tube anywhere and it will work.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 26 Jul 2011 01:09 am |
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TheAntiTroll wrote: Also as a response, 40 billion or something is the number you claim that overweight people cause the nation?
What about the 700 Billion bailout so CEO and every employee high on the food chain gets millions and billions of "bonuses" immediately after?
It's not my claim and the number is $147 BILLION. Get your facts straight.
As to greedy gluttonous CEO, the are merely a reflection of a society of gluttony and apathy.
Well lets have a little lesson in macroeconomics. The billions of bonuses gets payed to the 1% wealthy who spends it in the luxury industry such as Sports cars, jewelry, and real estate. These industries are tied with stocks and will improve stockholder's trusts in the American economy and therefore not cause it to fail. Also, these industries provide incomes to the regular people that produce these cars, jewelry, and manage real estates (obviously there are much more industries affected but I am giving a general overview).
With that astute understanding of economics you should be Warren Buffet's and Steve Forbes economic adviser. Where do you come up with these gems? Industries are tied with stocks?  You are a genius. You must teach economics.
Perhaps in your own brilliant words you can explain the role of supply side economics and its relationship to post war Keynesian theory and when you are done pontificating on that. Perhaps you can explain how the repeal of Glass-Steagal caused the current economic crisis.
This is not an economic forum. This is a weight loss forum so apply all of the above to caloric surplus and deficit and tell is in President Clinton caloric reform and subsequent weight loss caused the sub prime scandal.
Now, for the 40 billion or whatever you quoted before for the money that overweight people costs~ They provide income for pharmaceutical industries, give incentive for students to attend top 20 universities for a MD degree (which I am part of), and provide a chronic customer base for the health industry. What do you think would happen if 40 billion spent in the health industry suddenly become 0? (I am not advocating everyone stay overweight, I am simply stating that you cannot accuse the overweight group for putting their greedy paws on 40 billion for themselves because it is economics) Havoc unleashed!
That make a whole lot of sense. You are right. Skid marks do cause accidents. The fatter people get the better is is for the economy. Obesity spurs research into better power chair motors. It keeps UPS busy delivering diabetic and sleep apnea supplies to the growing fat population. Like in the movie Wall Street when Michael Douglas said "Greed is Good" Today he would say that greed is good but greedy gluttony is even better.
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