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JournoNYC
New Member
| Joined: | 19 Feb 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2008 02:32 pm |
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Hi everyone.
I'm a journalist in New York writing a story about shots for weight loss. I'd like to talk to anyone who has considered using them, used them, would never think of using them, or has great things or terrible things to say about any of them. So, if shots have crossed your radar as someone interested in weight loss, I want to hear from you!
Please contact me by PM, or respond to this thread and I'll PM you. Thanks!
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tpipes
New Member
| Joined: | 20 Feb 2008 |
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| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: 20 Feb 2008 06:25 pm |
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| I started taking b-12, hcg injections at the end of OCt.'07. I have lost 40lbs. as of today... I was giving a prescription for adipex and a water pill. adipex is to be taken once daily and the water pill is every other day. I'm not good at remembering so I don't take them on a regular basis. I usually take my shot once a week, but have missed many of them. Mine run $20 for each injection. I have a lot more energy and feel so much better. I have had no side effects from any thing I have taken. Adipex makes you thirsty and the water pill makes you pee. I don't consider that to be a problem. My doctor does keep tabs on your blood pressure and will prescribe more pills if you have not lost weight. I only have possitive things to say anbout this weight loss program. wheather my weight loss is due to the shots or not, it is my motivation to keep going, eat right, and improve my way of life.
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LarLeigh
New Member
| Joined: | 22 Feb 2008 |
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| Posts: | 6 |
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Posted: 22 Feb 2008 11:46 am |
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Hi,
I am currently taking hCG injections under a doctor's care.
I am not following Trudeau's protocol, only Dr. Simeons'.
I am 48 yrs old, 5'1" and started at 136 pounds with a BMI of 25.8. So I am not obese, just about 25 pounds overweight. I haven't done a lot of dieting but I did do Weight Watchers a few years ago and it worked for me too. I put pounds back on when I quit smoking, which I did with another shot! (no, I don't like shots  )
I have five hCG shots left to go and I am currently at 121 pounds. So far it seems like everything is working the way it says it will, and I don't think it is a scam. The top roll of fat on my belly is nearly gone and the bottom roll is significantly reduced. I feel and look healthy and energetic. In addition to my regular supplements and bioidentical hormone replacements, I take a gallbladder supplement to help flush the dissolving fat.
I understand that this will be a lifestyle change that will be up to me to maintain. After the end of the diet, I will probably revert to Weight Watchers to maintain my ideal weight and good eating habits.
If you care to hear any more of my story, please feel free to PM me. This is an interesting diet and I am interested in your results.
Yours truly,
LarLeigh
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Eli
New Member
| Joined: | 7 Feb 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 9 |
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Posted: 23 Feb 2008 04:13 pm |
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Hi LarLeigh,
I am just wondering how long it has taken you to lose 15 lbs. I started the diet one week ago and I have lost 6 lbs. and have 15-20 more to go. They said the weight might come off slower since I did not have much to lose and I do not want to be on this diet forever. I was hoping to lose the next 15 in a month. Did it slow down for you at the end?
I am like you not obese, my BMI is normal I just can never seem to lose that last 20 lbs. and I hope this does it!
Eli
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LarLeigh
New Member
| Joined: | 22 Feb 2008 |
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| Posts: | 6 |
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Posted: 24 Feb 2008 11:59 am |
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Hi Eli,
Today is Sunday, and I am on day 28 of the diet, and the 22nd shot. I have 3 more shots left to go. (Mon, Tues, & Wed)
To directly answer your question, it took me 25 days on the diet to lose 15 pounds, and that includes 4 days of menses when I didn't lose anything but maybe a few ounces.
I lost 4.5 pounds within the first 7 days, weighing on the same scale. Then I went to work out of town, didn't buy a reliable scale for several days, finally bought one and found I had lost 4 pounds within that 6 days. How much difference the scales have, I don't know. I bought a Weight Watchers brand scale. Then I stagnated for about 3 days, lost a pound, and stagnated for about another 3 days. Then lost from about 1/2 to 1 pound a day.
I am not sure why I stagnated, I think it was because I was washing my hands with liquid soap that had aloe and other oils that were being absorbed. Maybe my shampoo too and deodorant. I switched to baking soda for a deodorant. And, I cut down on my "handful" portion of strawberries 
I haven't done a lot of exercise but on these last few days I am more motivated to exercise and lose the last 5 pounds. I really, really want to get to 115. This morning I had only lost 1/2 pound from yesterday and that was somewhat disappointing.
I am hoping that losing will speed up for me on these last few days, and I am being very careful. Of course exercising more might beef me up to "gain" more in muscle weight. Don't know.
Quoting Suzanne Somers from her book, The Sexy Years,
"Physical activity releases stored sugar from your cells. As soon as that stored sugar is released, your body starts burning off its fat reserves. That's when you will start losing weight and your beautiful body will start revealing itself."
I won't go back home to weigh on the doctor's scale until I am in the following 3-week diet. I'll be curious to see what her scale says, but I have noticably lost fat around my belly, arms, face, and the double chin! yay!
If I don't get down to 115, I'll still be happy to end the diet at 120. I figure 30 days of the hCG strict dieting as opposed to 15 weeks on Weight Watchers to lose 15 pounds is well worth it for me!
Hang in there, it is worth it!!
~ LarLeigh
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Eli
New Member
| Joined: | 7 Feb 2008 |
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| Posts: | 9 |
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Posted: 24 Feb 2008 05:19 pm |
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Thanks for the feedback. I am going to be starting my menses this week so it is good to know that it might be hard to lose. I only get injections 3x a week (MWF). I wish I could do them more but that is what this clinic does. I eat around 750 calories, they said it is Simeon Protocol but they did not mention anything about cosmetics, soaps, deodorant. I wonder if there is more I could be doing. It has only been a week and I am so burned out on salads with this terrible salad dressings! Any suggestions?
Eli
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LarLeigh
New Member
| Joined: | 22 Feb 2008 |
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| Posts: | 6 |
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Posted: 24 Feb 2008 08:28 pm |
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Hi Eli,
I just PMd you with the websites I mention.
I am very surprised at the injections and calories. I wonder if it is mixed with something else besides Dr Simeons because my doctor stresses that the diet must be followed to the nth degree. That means absolutely no oils, thus no cosmetics with oils in them.
Dr. Simeons's manuscript and diet protocol can be read online. Read his "Pounds and Inches" I sent you a website at hcgdietinfo.
There are many good recipies at hcgrecipes.blogspot. If you can't get to it, let me know.
I also go to a forum at hcgdietforums. It's not very active yet but it is well organized I've received some good information from those who have posted.
There are numerous blogs posted by people on the hCG diet.
Have you heard of Kevin Trudeau and his book, The Weight Loss Cure They Don't Want You to Know About? He is the one who has brought popularity of the diet to the states, but he adds a bunch of other stuff in addition to Dr. Simeon's original protocol that is probably good, but isn't necessary. I haven't read this particular book but I've read another of his books.
Please feel free to PM me if you can't get to any of these websites I've mentioned.
Please let me know how you do...
~ LarLeigh 
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Eli
New Member
| Joined: | 7 Feb 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 9 |
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Posted: 25 Feb 2008 03:07 pm |
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| Thanks for the feedback. I called the clinic and asked some questions too and I will continue to read more. What salad dressing are you allowed to eat on your diet, or do you get salad?
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LarLeigh
New Member
| Joined: | 22 Feb 2008 |
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| Posts: | 6 |
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Posted: 25 Feb 2008 04:52 pm |
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Does your clinic have a website I could look at?
I can't have mixed salads. I can only have one vegetable each meal, and no more than one. I can have spinach, lettuce, tomato, cucumber, celery, chard, chicory, beet greens, fennel, white, yellor or red onions, radishes, asparagus, or cabbage. But only one.
I had lobster over baby lettuce for lunch today and an apple for an afternoon snack. I'll have ground steak and cooked cabbage tonight. For dessert I'll have an orange. If I get the munchies real bad before bed then I'll nibble a melba toast.
As for salad dressings, the doctor's instructions say I can have non-fat dressings -1 TBSP ONLY . They recommend Cardidni's No Fat Caesar. I didn't buy it so I don't know how it is.
Mustard is allowed, so you might want to experiment with that and with different herbs. Find some fresh ones if possible. I have come to appreciate the flavors and have even cut way down on salt.
Cinnamon is great with cooked spinach. Sprinkle some ground cinnamon over the leaves as they steam, or put a couple of sticks in the water.
Anise is great with shrimp. I sautee a bit of garlic, Bragg Liquid Amino (soy sauce subsistute) and Anise in a couple tablespoons of water, always adding a little water as it dries up. Then I add the shrimp and saute it until it is done.
BTW, I only lost a 1/2 pound from yesterday. Since it seems to be about my normal rate and I still have some product left, I am going to extend my diet for a few days until I get to at least 115 pounds. I have to skip a shot every 7th day so that I don't get an immunity.
It seems slow,  but I am determined to get the most out of this time and money.
Cheers,
LarLeigh
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Eli
New Member
| Joined: | 7 Feb 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 9 |
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Posted: 29 Feb 2008 04:05 pm |
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Hi LarLeigh,
So how did your week end up? I am pretty satisfied with my results this week. I have lost another 5 this week so I am down 11 lbs. and it will be two weeks on Monday. I now feel confident that the last 15 will come off too. The diet gets boring but I have cheated a little with a south beach frozen dinner a couple of times and a couple of glasses of wine and I seem to be loosing about the same. I plan on being very good next week, no cheating and see if it speeds the results up. Pants I could not wear 2 weeks ago are baggy now and I am losing that stubborn belly fat. Of course I am exercising a lot too, I walk 4 miles 4-5 times a week and I know that helps.
Did you get the clinic website I sent you?
Eli
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LarLeigh
New Member
| Joined: | 22 Feb 2008 |
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| Posts: | 6 |
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Posted: 29 Feb 2008 05:06 pm |
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Great to hear you are doing so well!!  It feels good, huh? How is your hunger level and your energy level?
I wanted to suggest to you to try flavored vinegars for your salads.
Well, my week ended up with me still at about 120 pounds.
I work in the Virgin Islands where choices are limited, and the pharmacy here didn't have the right size needles so my dr express mailed some from the states, but they never arrived. So, I ended the injections on Wednesday (23rd injection) at about 119.9 / 120.2 pounds. (my scale fluctuates). T
They also suggested eating slightly more protein one night to jump start losing again, but I didn't try it. Now that I think back, it does seem like the one day after I ate more than I should have I did lose a pound.
I don't know why I stagnated those last 5 days. But, it feels like the right time to go off the inections. I go off the 500 calorie diet starting Sunday - then anything except sugars or starches for 3 weeks. I must watch my weight carefully during these three weeks so that I don't gain or lose more than 2 pounds.
I wanted to be at 115, but I am happy with what I have done, how I look and feel. I can wear tight t-shirts again! And I am looking forward to buying a new swim suit when I get back to Florida next weekend.
I am exercising every day - minimum 30 min walk and 30 min of stretching, crunches and hand weights. It feels really good to be getting stronger. I have sooo much more energy.
I did not get your clinic website link. Will you please resend it?
Now that your clothes are baggy, it will probably give you the incentive to keep going.
Cheers! 
~ LarLeigh
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Talia2
New Member
| Joined: | 13 Mar 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 2008 12:17 pm |
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I started with the b12/lipotropics about 2 months ago. I feel great and I have lost 18 lbs. It was hard to find a doctor in my area (Miami, FL) that gave the b12/lipotropics for a reasonable cost. I go twice a week and get my shots. The doctor is a naturopathic acupuncturist and she also gives me some herbs to take for hunger and metabolism. She also puts some tacks in my ear that help these. When I started the b12/lipo injections with her, she stressed that I would really see benefits if I did some form of exercise EVERY DAY - even if it was 10 min of walking. Prior to this I had not been able to loose weight (menopausal syndrome) on my own.
Since I was feeling more energetic, I started walking almost every day - well the weight has been coming off at last! I have 20 more lbs to go but I intend to take the shots & ear tacks for the rest of this journey and possibly beyone. I have been eating (as recommended by dr. moreira) more frequent, smaller meals, high protein, low carb.
I don't think that just one thing is going to help you get a sluggish metabolism going, but when you combine all the RIGHT things you get results.
Cheers!
Talia
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beb1966
New Member
| Joined: | 16 Apr 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 16 Apr 2008 09:07 pm |
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Hi I'm Linda,
I'm interested in taking the HCG and B12 shots where do you go I live in Cerritos California. Any information would be helpful I need to loss about sixty pounds.
Last edited on 16 Apr 2008 09:12 pm by beb1966
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prhodes
New Member
| Joined: | 17 Apr 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 17 Apr 2008 11:15 am |
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Hello,
I received my 2nd injections on Tuesday of this week, and I also started taking the diet pill this week. I didn't lose anything the first week. I was told that I need to eat more calories. I usually eat oatmeal for breakfast and drink decaf coffee. Please give me some ideas on a filling breakfast because I am starving a couple of hours after eating the oatmeal. I'm kind of nervous about taking the diet pill since I have high blood pressure so I'm taking only 1/2 for now.
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2cute21
New Member
| Joined: | 29 Apr 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3 |
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Posted: 29 Apr 2008 11:49 am |
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| please let me know how can lose weight with the hcg Last edited on 30 Apr 2008 08:17 am by
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Talia2
New Member
| Joined: | 13 Mar 2008 |
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| Posts: | 3 |
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Posted: 1 May 2008 03:40 pm |
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Careful with the HCG especially if you are a woman. Do your research. HCG increases testosterone levels - that's why it's easier to gain muscle and lose fat. But.... you can grow excess hair (everywhere on your body), your voice deepens, and other unpleasant effects if you are a woman that does not wish to become masculanized. Gather info - go online - learn learn learn.
Talia
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NICOLELEE
New Member
| Joined: | 23 May 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 23 May 2008 10:31 am |
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 Hello, I must say that HCG injection is the ONLY WAY I lost the extra weight I had gained. I was never overweight until I had a hysterectomy 2 1/2 years ago. I am 39 and 5 ft. 7inches tall. I had always been between 128 - 135. After my hyster I had shot up to 150 in 2 years, I ate the same, still excercised and couldn't get off more then 3 pounds eating smarter and adding more excercise. I tried diet pills, colon cleansers, etc. My expereince with the HCG was that I lost 15 pounds and 13 inches (Im more excited about the inches then anything, this is actual fat you loose with inches) in four weeks. I did walk 3-4 times a week 3-4 miles each time, this helps you drop the inches faster. I noticed all my fat melt away and all my muscle tone is defined and prominent now. I was on the 800 calorie diet though, I couldn't have done a 500 calorie. My diet seemed more reasonable, eat 3 meals a day, plus 2 snacks. You have to eat veggies, fruit, protein and carbs, I like that you can eat all your food groups, so my body will not be in shock to go back to normal eating. Im sure the 500 calorie one has quicker results, but for loosing 20 pounds and under I recommend the 800 calorie diet. Of course my HCG shots were 5 days a week, only 125 mg a day also. I would endorse this diet anyday, especially for women in menapause and who have had weight gain from hyster. and nothing seems to work!! THIS DOES!!!!
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katiepen
New Member
| Joined: | 27 May 2008 |
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| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: 27 May 2008 01:31 pm |
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Talia 2 - Do your research. Have you tried the hcg shots? Those side effects do not apply to the very low doses of hcg used for weight loss. I am so amazed by all the people who talk about something that they've never tried. If you don't have the strength to try it then don't but don't talk about something that you don't understand or have any personal knowledge.
I lost 30 pounds the first time I used the hcg, and no I didn't grow any dark hair or any other side effect. Actually the side effect I did have was that I felt great and I was full of energy. Unfortunately I gained the weight back because I didn't follow the phase 3 & 4 outlined in Kevin Trudeau's book, The Weight Loss Cure They Don't Want You To Know About. I have friends who did the shots right after me (and no still no weird hair growth) and they have maintained their weight loss because they completed phase 3 and live their lives following phase 4. This time I've lost 13 pounds in 8 days so far and this time I'm going to keep the weight off by finishing phase 3 and living phase 4.
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katiepen
New Member
| Joined: | 27 May 2008 |
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| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: 5 Jun 2008 11:32 am |
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| I'm now on day 19 and I've lost 18 pounds. I feel great and I'm not hungry at all.
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Talia2
New Member
| Joined: | 13 Mar 2008 |
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| Posts: | 3 |
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Posted: 12 Jun 2008 01:25 pm |
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Hey Katiepen
How about you do YOUR research. You must get slightly dizzy so high up there. I was informed of this by an MD. Women should be careful with the HCG shots. I am a firm believer that each individual should do their own research and not be lead by others - they should find out what is best for THEM and take responsibility for their health. In my case, I totally trust my doctor. I am one of the lucky ones to have a practitioner that really cares. I don't need to have profound scientific knowledge - it suffices that she doesn't think it is a good thing for females.
My two cents to your two cents.
Namaste,
Talia
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katiepen
New Member
| Joined: | 27 May 2008 |
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| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: 13 Jun 2008 12:16 pm |
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Talia2
I have done my research, obviously you haven't, you're just listening to your MD who obviously hasn't done her research into the low amounts of hcg used in this therapy. Just because she's an MD doesn't mean that she knows anything about this. MD's have very little training in any kind of nutrition and natural therapies. And they are naturally skeptical of anything that doesn't include drugs and surgery. I'm sure that she's only aware of the side effects of the high amounts of hcg used in fertility treatment and the treatment of boys with testicular issues. If you are blindly listening to your MD just because she has a degree on her wall and she is caring then I feel very sorry for your future health. MD's are called practicing physicians and we are their test subjects. It's not that they're bad people, that's just how they're trained and they are being run by the drug companies.
And not only have I done my research, which there is a ton of done by MD's, but I have used the hcg for weight loss twice. The 1st time I lost 30 pounds with no side effects. I gained the weight back because I didn't finish phase 3 correctly, but this time I've lost 21 pounds so far and I will finish correctly and keep the weight off. I have friends who have done this and have been very successful in keeping the weight off. I am a very healthy person. I eat all organic, I don't touch any type of drug, I haven't even taken an asprin or tylenol for over 2 years. I never would have done this therapy if it wasn't all natural without side effects. I did my research and all I'm saying to you, not from my place above you but from my personal experience that you don't have, don't talk about something that you have not researched and have no personal knowledge of.
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Caidan_fire
New Member
| Joined: | 13 Jul 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 13 Jul 2008 03:39 pm |
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Katiepen,
thank you for your willingness to share your informed experience.
I would like to know where you ordered your supplies from this time around, as I am on a very tight budget.
Please email me if you do not wish to post it here.
Thank you for your time.
Caiden
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katiepen
New Member
| Joined: | 27 May 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2008 11:44 am |
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Hi Caidenfire
drugdelivery.ca. It took about 4 weeks to get but it was less then $100. Check other hcg forums for the other supplies as you will need to get your own needles and bacteristatic water. hcgdietinfo.com is a good one. Good Luck!
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spicey_doll
New Member
| Joined: | 26 Aug 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 26 Aug 2008 03:51 pm |
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| I have taken the hcg injections and phentermine and so far have lost 130lbs. I have tried every other diet known to man and never been able to stick with it long enough to lose a significant amount of weight. It did not come off overnight the way many people seem to do, but that is ok. The time it took for me to lose it gave me time to make my dietary habits lifetime changes instead of "something i do to lose weight".
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katiepen
New Member
| Joined: | 27 May 2008 |
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| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: 27 Aug 2008 11:16 am |
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| Congratulations Spicey doll, that is awesome! It's taking me a little extra time this time too but it's worth sticking to and I'm almost done, plus I messed around a little, just 1 day of not eating the 500 cal diet even though I only ate healthy cost me 1 week. But as you said it helps to change the bad habits so that I will never gain the weight back so it's worth the time. This will be the last diet that I ever do, I will weigh myself everyday and if I ever go over 2 pounds I will do the "steak" day (I put it in quotes because I'm a vegetarian and my steak day is 4 egg day but it works just as well). I feel like I have a new lease on life!
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beachfront
New Member
| Joined: | 2 Apr 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: 2 Apr 2009 11:39 am |
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| could I ask where you purchased your hcg and the 800 calorie plan? I have been taking hcg without success? I have only lost 1.5lbs in 3 weeks.
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Nickey
New Member
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Posted: 20 Dec 2011 11:30 am |
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HI there. I am getting ready to go to my DR. here in Ontario to discuss the HCG Diet. Not sure how she will respond. I only have about 18lbs to lose. I would like to do the 800 cal/day diet as well. I work out with weights every other day and do 30 mins cardio in between. I need to eat enough calories to sustain this. My hormones have been out of balance since the birth of my 2ond child 7 yrs ago and the pounds have crept on despite my efforts. I have high cortisol, extremely low testosterone and DHEA. I know the HCG will help my lagging metabolism. COuld you please advise me on your daily menu and any advice would truly be appreciated.
TY
Nic
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Nickey
New Member
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Posted: 20 Dec 2011 11:32 am |
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| wow- I Am soooo happy for you! I am hoping to start asap- following an appt with my doctor- hooping she will be on board.
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Nickey
New Member
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Posted: 20 Dec 2011 11:35 am |
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HI - gald to hear of your success! I am getting ready to start this diet. Could you pls let me know the name of the herbs that are given for hunger. Much appreciated. I love that all these successful people are sharing their tips to help others! TY
Nickey
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Nickey
New Member
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Posted: 20 Dec 2011 11:47 am |
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I agree with you. I am a cetified Acupuncturist. I work with Board Certified Doctors and Naturopaths both of who are educated based on science. They have enormous practices where they are treating women and men with natural bio- identical hormones with enormous success and no side effects that one has to be fearful in the future- unlike drugs. We have to educate/advocate for ourselves- find the science and most times even educate our doctors. This is not something that would fall into their normal scope of practice unless they go out on their own to get special training and education- especially regarding weight loss and hormonal balance ( of course one usually equals the other)I stongly recommend reading Suzanne Somers Book "Breakthrough" and once that blows your mind read "Knock Out"- especially if you know anyone with cancer or wish to prevent yourself the agony of cancer in the future. She was recently on Dr. Oz and has been on Oprah with her own Natural Success Stories.
In Kind,
N
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Nickey
New Member
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Posted: 20 Dec 2011 11:50 am |
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I agree with you. I am a cetified Acupuncturist. I work with Board Certified Doctors and Naturopaths both of who are educated based on science. They have enormous practices where they are treating women and men with natural bio- identical hormones with enormous success and no side effects that one has to be fearful in the future- unlike drugs. We have to educate/advocate for ourselves- find the science and most times even educate our doctors. This is not something that would fall into their normal scope of practice unless they go out on their own to get special training and education- especially regarding weight loss and hormonal balance ( of course one usually equals the other)I stongly recommend reading Suzanne Somers Book "Breakthrough" and once that blows your mind read "Knock Out"- especially if you know anyone with cancer or wish to prevent yourself the agony of cancer in the future. She was recently on Dr. Oz and has been on Oprah with her own Natural Success Stories.
In Kind,
N
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Nickey
New Member
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Posted: 20 Dec 2011 12:00 pm |
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Talia I agree with Katie. I am a cetified Acupuncturist. I work with Board Certified Doctors and Naturopaths both of who are educated in this area of specialty based on science. They have ever growing practices where they are treating women and men with natural bio- identical hormones with enormous success and no side effects that one has to be fearful in the future- unlike drugs.They are specialists in their field who have been specifically trained in this area. Also sounds like there has been a confusion of HcG and HGH -which describes the side effects u r talking about. Also most women have significant decrease in their testosterone levels after child birth and after age 35. I recommmend my clients get their hormones tested every year to see where 'Great' feels and then watch the ebbs and flows of the hormones in coming years and measure against mood, weight gain\loss, metabolism, sleep, water rentention, etc.
We have to educate/advocate for ourselves- find the science and most times even educate our doctors. This is not something that would fall into their normal scope of practice unless they go out on their own to get special training and education- especially regarding weight loss and hormonal balance ( of course one usually equals the other)I stongly recommend reading Suzanne Somers Book "Breakthrough" and once that blows your mind read "Knock Out"- especially if you know anyone with cancer or wish to prevent yourself the agony of cancer in the future. She was recently on Dr. Oz and has been on Oprah with her own Natural Success Stories. Also, Dr. Christianne Northrup- books and website. She is world renowned.
In Kind,
N
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