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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 22 Jun 2011 10:49 pm |
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....well are you?
In Alcoholic Anonymous they get people to "admit" that they are powerless over alcohol. I never really understood the logic in that but they make the drunks say it at meetings.
It seems to me that if one were powerless over alcohol they would have very little chance of reform. I am not powerless over junk food or alcohol I can take it or leave it.
Give this some thought and then answer yes or no and then expand upon your answers.
Somebody may try to derail this thread but don't go for her bait. Think deeply about what it means to be powerless over food.
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zenobia
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 23 Jun 2011 12:30 am |
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since this is a new thread, i'll give this a go....
i think food has power over everyone. everyone needs food to survive, therefore, food will always have power over a person because survival depends on it. you can't stop eating completely becasue eventually, you will die. if we are ultimately driven by survival, then well, we are, to some extent, powerless over food... can a person have power over thier impulses? yes. can people have power and make decisions on what, how much, and how often they eat (be those decisions good or bad)? yes.
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 23 Jun 2011 06:50 am |
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Alcoholics Anonymous members admit they are powerless over alcohol, in other words that they cannot moderate their consumption especially once they've started drinking, and that having tried to stop drinking they repeatedly found themselves returning to drink. They admit defeat and seek help from outside of their concious self - from the group, from an inner resource they have yet to tap into or (controversially) from a diety.
In 2006 I visited a parallel organisation named Overeaters Anonymous and I admitted I was powerless over compulsive over-eating. I would not stop binge-eating. For me food, not alcohol, was the "drug of choice". Accepting food is a problem then leads to going to any lengths to abstain. Not to abstain from food, obviously, but to abstain from compulsive eating behaviour.
I am not powerless over alcohol and can take it or leave it, so my bottles of vodka have remained in the cupboard for years largely untouched; yet I am powerless over certain junk foods (for example chocolate) so it is a sensible precaution not to keep it around - the temptation will only hinder.
In short, admitting you are powerless is admitting you have a PROBLEM. If you don't think you have a problem (with food, or alcohol, gambling, sex, drugs etc.) then you are not going to be interested in changing your behaviour.
There is a concept of "reaching a rock bottom". A person might attend AA because the court mandated them to do so or to please their spouse, but they might be doing so under protest - they might say "I'm not an alcoholic - I just have a drinking problem", they are not yet ready to admit they are powerless over alcohol and they are determined to continue to drink. Such a person is not interested in help to stop drinking.
I was fat for most of the period from 1996 until 2003. Yet this was not an issue for me at the time. I don't think I gave it much thought and I don't think I would have been interested or accepted any help.
I believe that MOST of the overweight and obese people are like that. It does not bother them and they have no interest in and have no use for any help you, I or anyone else would offer. As a general rule, this majority of the population have better things to do than frequent Diet and Weight Loss forums.
I don't believe that you can cause someone to experience their "rock bottom" with words. You cannot manufacture it. This 'deflation' must surely come from within.
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PuffsPlus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 23 Jun 2011 07:08 am |
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Like zenobia, I'm going to treat this as a serious thread, even though it may not be intended that way.
Agree with everything Nir said. I think anyone who's ever had a problem with binge eating (myself included) has at some point been powerless over food.
The book _The End of Overeating_ by David Kessler discusses this phenomenon and recommends that the best way to avoid bingeing is to avoid being in situations where one is faced with the temptation to binge or compulsively overeat. Great book.
I've never attended Overeaters Anonymous, but I suspect they use something of the same approach of avoiding trigger situations. Nir, is that right?
Sadly, crash and starvation dieting can also set you up for compulsive and binge eating behaviors later on. That's been show in in animal experiments. And many of us (myself included) have done enough of that kind of dieting in our lives too to have created more of a problem for ourselves when it comes to bingeing.
Dr. Kessler points to research that confirms that some people's brains are--for a lack of a better term--more interested in food than others. Some people--due to genetics, epigenetic programming, life experiences-- are more sensitive, less cognitively in control when faced with the temptation to eat or overeat. Dr. Kessler includes himself in this category, btw.
Dr. Kessler discusses why fenfluramine and dexfenfluramine (The "Fen" in Phen/Fen and Redux) worked so well to help people lose weight. The drug didn't dampen appetite so much as just inhibit the part of the brain that was interested in food. His research in interviewing people who'd had success with Phen/Fen and Redux before the drugs were pulled from the market uncovered something interesting: many people who had previously felt especially tempted by food finally felt "normal". As in, they finally had what they thought was just a normal interest and reaction to food.
On phen/fen or Redux, they could look at a trigger food and feel in control enough to say, "No thanks".
All this being said, I do think it's important to remember that not all overweight people binge eat, though. You can become overweight just by grazing and not eating large amounts of food at once. You can become overweight without eating junk food and just by eating a little too much at meals. Not all overweight or obese people are wired to be especially tempted by trigger foods. Nobody should assume that every overweight or obese person binge eats.
And not all people who have periods of binge eating have the eating disorder called "Binge Eating Disorder". Compulsive overeating is an actual eating disorder with a specific definition.
Last edited on 23 Jun 2011 07:22 am by PuffsPlus
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 23 Jun 2011 09:10 am |
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Not sure about obese but one COULD certainly become overweight by eating 'normal sized' meals consisting of the 'wrong' foods which would represent a calorie surplus, so this would not necessarily be grazing or binge-eating. Though even when the individual has grasped that this is happening they may be unwilling to let go of such foods. (so I would say they were powerless over those foods, but I think what is most relevant is THEIR PERCEPTION of whether they have a problem)
As for your question about how Overeaters Anonymous suggests one abstains from compulsive over-eating behaviour: each individual draws up their own plan of eating which for instance might specify trigger foods they now choose not to eat but the main suggestion centers not on what situations to avoid but on achieving and then maintaining a significant change of personality and adressing the underlying personality issues (referred to as "character defects"). That is what the 12 steps are for. So you end up with more than a slim body - you get a better attitude.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 23 Jun 2011 05:34 pm |
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Actually alcohol and food a really different in that we need food to survive.
No one is really powerless over junk food or alcohol. Even people with Prader Willi are able to control their insatiable hunger.
Most fat people are not eating to satisfy hunger because if they were they would make better food choices.
Binge eating is normal for humans. The problem is the food selection. If Mir were to binge on lettuce he would not be able to get fat or even gain weight. Cravings are normal too in most cases. They are the result of the body seeking a nutrient it needs. Pregnancy is a prime example of that.
Hunger, sex and pleasure are primitive drives that originate in the animal part of our brain ie the hypothalamus. BUT... as humans we have a mechanism for controlling those drives and it is in the pre frontal lobe. We can use it to control our impulses. Some people have developed that part of the brain by exercising self control while others don't. Supermarkets exploit that lack of self control by placing what they call impulse items at the check out counter/register (I am elaborating some terms because Brits and Americans use different word for the same thing) Those items are usually candy.
Because I am an inner directed person I don't react. Fat people are what are called other directed. They react rather than act. To put it another way they are weak-willed and they do everything they can to stay weak willed and become more weak-willed and in a sense that can be considered by many a moral failing. They continually reinforce those behaviors and that neurology with their behaviors and their poor food choices.
Food is not powerful. Food simply exists. Food has no control over you. You can choose good foods that are moderately satisfying and very nourishing or you can choose foods that are very satisfying and not very nourishing. As you can plainly see you are the one with the power. An inanimate object has no power at all. If it has power it is the power that you have relinquished and given to it.
There is a way to change but it won't happen overnight and it won't happen if you stay in denial and blame everything and everyone other than yourself. The things that you claim caused it are mute points. They didn't cause it and they can't cure it. You caused it and only you or can cure it.
Obesity is a symptom.
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 23 Jun 2011 06:14 pm |
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No one is really powerless over junk food or alcohol
If my above explanation was not sufficient, you could visit a local open AA meeting to get the idea of a person who is powerless over alcohol.
I do sense a problem of imagination here - just because you don't have a problem with alcohol, you cannot imagine the possiblity that someone else could have a problem. When reading about autistic spectrum disorders this problem is referred to as Theory Of Mind. The inability to see the world from other people's perspective.
As far as binge-eating goes, there are two components: a large amount of food consumed in short duration and a feeling of powerlessness or being out-of-control.
When I have my first meal of the day, in the afternoon, it is a varied 'salad' which usually measures 3000ml in volume and 1500g in weight, so you might want to call it a "binge" - but for one thing I eat it slowly so that I can properly chew it, and for another I do not have a "powerlessness" or "out of control" feeling, so it isn't really a binge the way that it is defined for Binge Eating Disorder.
All 12 step fellowships have a STEP 1 of the form "We admitted that we were powerless over XXXX - that our lives have become unmanagable". To re-state, this means "We admitted we had a problem with XXXX". I guess your perspective will prevent you from ever making use of such a fellowship.
I am surprised at your attitude though. Surely the first step towards solving any problem is to admit that it exists.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 23 Jun 2011 06:14 pm |
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PuffsPlus wrote: Like zenobia, I'm going to treat this as a serious thread, even though it may not be intended that way.
Agree with everything Nir said. I think anyone who's ever had a problem with binge eating (myself included) has at some point been powerless over food.
The book _The End of Overeating_ by David Kessler discusses this phenomenon and recommends that the best way to avoid bingeing is to avoid being in situations where one is faced with the temptation to binge or compulsively overeat. Great book.
That won't work in the real world. If you are in an office with other fat people they will constantly bring in food that is bad and you will be tempted. Count to ten and say, "I would rather eat an orange" You CAN retrain your brain buy exercising self control.
I've never attended Overeaters Anonymous, but I suspect they use something of the same approach of avoiding trigger situations. Nir, is that right?
Sadly, crash and starvation dieting can also set you up for compulsive and binge eating behaviors later on. That's been show in in animal experiments. And many of us (myself included) have done enough of that kind of dieting in our lives too to have created more of a problem for ourselves when it comes to bingeing.
Now you said something true. VLC diets can only work with really strong people and really strong people don't get fat. There many bad things that happen during extreme restriction in people who are obese. Because I am healthy I could do it for a week or so with no adverse effects but for a fat person it is a recipe for failure.
Dr. Kessler points to research that confirms that some people's brains are--for a lack of a better term--more interested in food than others. Some people--due to genetics, epigenetic programming, life experiences-- are more sensitive, less cognitively in control when faced with the temptation to eat or overeat. Dr. Kessler includes himself in this category, btw.
Kessler like to use a lot of big words but he didn't really offer a solution. All humans have the potential to get fat and skinny. Today we simply need to eat mindfully and count calories until it becomes second nature. The brain has enough plasticity to be changed and it can happen a few months.
Dr. Kessler discusses why fenfluramine and dexfenfluramine (The "Fen" in Phen/Fen and Redux) worked so well to help people lose weight. The drug didn't dampen appetite so much as just inhibit the part of the brain that was interested in food. His research in interviewing people who'd had success with Phen/Fen and Redux before the drugs were pulled from the market uncovered something interesting: many people who had previously felt especially tempted by food finally felt "normal". As in, they finally had what they thought was just a normal interest and reaction to food.
There isn't a part of the brain "interested" in food. Primarily two things happen. We have signals form the digestive system and blood sugar levels that turn on the hunger drive. That is true hunger.
The second thing that happens has to do with the neuro transmitters serotonin and dopamine. They cause pleasure. Junk food is pleasurable and the more we eat the more serotonin and dopamine gets released. After a while the brain cells develop more serotonin and dopamine receptor sites and that increases the need to more pleasure and if we don't get it we don't feel right. (Do you still think I am full of poo?) In a sense if you a fat person who has been very self indulgent were to suddenly cut calories all at once the experience would prove overwhelming. A person like me experiencing could suck it up and tough it. Most fat people can't and that is why they have to withdraw gradually.
On phen/fen or Redux, they could look at a trigger food and feel in control enough to say, "No thanks".
That poison killed a lot of people. Most SSRIs and MAOI inhibitors are never a good thing to use more than a few week if ever. In the long wrong they can increase hunger and cravings.
All this being said, I do think it's important to remember that not all overweight people binge eat, though. You can become overweight just by grazing and not eating large amounts of food at once. You can become overweight without eating junk food and just by eating a little too much at meals. Not all overweight or obese people are wired to be especially tempted by trigger foods. Nobody should assume that every overweight or obese person binge eats.
I agree with every thing except becoming overweight on real food. Maybe you can but it would be tough. It may depend on one's definition of junk food.
And not all people who have periods of binge eating have the eating disorder called "Binge Eating Disorder". Compulsive overeating is an actual eating disorder with a specific definition.
There is a lot of diagnoses out there and IMO most of them are wrong. There are precious few effective treatments.
Last edited on 23 Jun 2011 06:15 pm by JSABD
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PuffsPlus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 23 Jun 2011 09:07 pm |
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JSABD wrote(Do you still think I am full of poo?)
Yes. Thanks for asking. 
Last edited on 23 Jun 2011 09:08 pm by PuffsPlus
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 23 Jun 2011 09:47 pm |
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PuffsPlus wrote: JSABD wrote(Do you still think I am full of poo?)
Yes. Thanks for asking.
I think you are full of poo too. Maybe I will change my mind if you can give me a valid reason for why you can't keep you calories slightly under 2000 calories a day and derive those calories mostly from foods similar to what Nir eats.
What's your answer?
Last edited on 23 Jun 2011 10:21 pm by JSABD
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Ladydi
New Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 12:57 pm |
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Honey, I suggest you get off this site, as you have NO clue what you are talking about!
Get some help!
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Steampunk
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 03:55 pm |
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No, I'm not. Food isn't my main issue, it's finding stability so that I'm not making unhealthy choices when my life gets rough. My biggest obstacle is keeping my emotions under control when things get rocky. I'm not powerless over that either, it just takes finding the right, healthy method of keeping things in check and making the right decisions like no more skimping on sleep because that messes with my mood, too. No starving myself or eating unhealthy when I'm stressed, you know the drill. When I'm feeling right (no extreme amounts of stress), I don't have a problem with food. I eat like 6 times a day, I don't drink any soda, and I don't really want unhealthy stuff because it makes me gag. I don't seem to like things that are really rich or fatty/greasy. I even have a hard time consuming meat because of it so I stick to fish and chicken mostly.
Case in point, I'm feeling okay today and I'm eating a chicken sandwich. I have a salad with it but I'll eat that later. No cravings for anything sweet, I don't want anything like burgers or fries or even the pasta they're serving today. Skipped right past it to the chicken. =D
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 05:00 pm |
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Ladydi wrote: Honey, I suggest you get off this site, as you have NO clue what you are talking about!
Get some help!
Go back to the all you can eat buffet and Big Fat Blog.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 05:36 pm |
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Steampunk wrote: No, I'm not. Food isn't my main issue, it's finding stability so that I'm not making unhealthy choices when my life gets rough. My biggest obstacle is keeping my emotions under control when things get rocky. I'm not powerless over that either, it just takes finding the right, healthy method of keeping things in check and making the right decisions like no more skimping on sleep because that messes with my mood, too. No starving myself or eating unhealthy when I'm stressed, you know the drill. When I'm feeling right (no extreme amounts of stress), I don't have a problem with food. I eat like 6 times a day, I don't drink any soda, and I don't really want unhealthy stuff because it makes me gag. I don't seem to like things that are really rich or fatty/greasy. I even have a hard time consuming meat because of it so I stick to fish and chicken mostly.
I think you are rationalizing. The term "emotions" is very vague. What emotions? Fear? Anger?
Is it rational to treat emotional problems with food? Now that you know that you know you should stop. What I think could be happening is the you are treating symptoms with food. You may be self-medicating with food or you could be BSing yourself because you are a glutton or it can me a little of both.
Drunks use a similar rationale. They struggle trying to figure out why they drink too much when what they need to do is to stop drinking and figure out why they drank.
Case in point, I'm feeling okay today and I'm eating a chicken sandwich. I have a salad with it but I'll eat that later. No cravings for anything sweet, I don't want anything like burgers or fries or even the pasta they're serving today. Skipped right past it to the chicken. =D
Eat a balanced diet so that you won't have food cravings. Food cravings and hunger are not "emotional".
Correct your eating and take the time to learn how to eat. Nir uses a good diet and I have a good diet. Both will work for you. My method is simple. You calculate your basal metabolic rate and you eat balanced meals at that level. As you loses weight you recalculate your BMR.
It's that simple.
Tell me all the reasons for why you can't do this. Think long and hard before you answer.
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Steampunk
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 06:02 pm |
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What emotions you ask? That's a really personal question whether you realize it or not. You're just a stranger on the internet, I would only consider discussing personal matters with you if you were a friend, a professional, or at least open-minded.
What do you seek to change by calling people names and treating everyone as if they were all the exact same?
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 06:16 pm |
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Steampunk wrote: What emotions you ask? That's a really personal question whether you realize it or not. You're just a stranger on the internet, I would only consider discussing personal matters with you if you were a friend, a professional, or at least open-minded.
Now I think you are BSing. This a anonymous. We don't know who you are. You are just a name. Now I strongly suspect that you are a glutton who is giving the vague patent excuse that it's emotional. I asked if your "emotional eating" was out of fear or anger. It's a simple question. You are nothing special. You can say what it is.
Let's try this. You've heard others say that they eat for "emotional reasons". In your theory what emotions cause people to lose self control and why?
What do you seek to change by calling people names and treating everyone as if they were all the exact same?
Most people are the same. There are 200 million obese people and if they all have a different reason for why they are gluttons then there is no hope for this greedy country. BTW, I don't treat them like they are all the same. Fat boys and different than fat girls.
We need to call it what it is and what it is is gluttony. Tell me why most fat people are not gluttons.
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Steampunk
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 06:26 pm |
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It's not a simple question. People I've known since elementary school don't even know much about me. I'm a private person, I was taught not to talk to people about things that bother me. Even today, if I'm talking with my Dad in public he'll shush me because he's afraid someone will overhear, even when it's something mundane. I grew up with it, I'm used to it. Trust me - many things have happened in my life that should have been acted upon. They weren't out of a fear of talking. To date, only a very small number of people know some of my most personal pains and I wouldn't consider you someone I'd divulge that kind of information to. Thankfully, I don't need to. As you said, with drunks, they need to know why they drank...I know why I do what I do, you don't actually have any kind of help to offer me as things stand.
You oversimplify everything. If you were a trained professional, you would be more effective. I'd talk with you in private if I believed you would actually help in some way but I know you wouldn't and that's where you lose a lot of your effectiveness. To help you actually have to care and you've made it quite clear that you do not.
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Steampunk
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 06:28 pm |
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Let me put it to you this way - if I told you that I'm in a lot of pain, that I'm really hurting, would you care enough to listen? Or would you be eager to call me names?
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Tankgirl
Distinguished Member
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| Posts: | 538 |
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 06:55 pm |
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Steam, I'd listen, and I'm not the only one. However I recommend that you tell that kind of thing in other sections, for your own sanity's sake.
As far as me, No I'm not powerless over food. I was hooked on sugar for way too long, but with that out of my life, food is is just food- fuel, nutrition, something to fuel my rides and workouts.
Now If I could just do something about the "Bike lust" 
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Steampunk
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 07:07 pm |
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I know different people would listen, I actually visit another site for that sort of thing. JS just isn't the type of person I'd tell it to, it's like going up to the school bully on the playground and asking him to give you a wedgie. xD
I'm glad you aren't hooked on sugar anymore, that's great. =)
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Tankgirl
Distinguished Member
| Joined: | 1 Jul 2011 |
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| Posts: | 538 |
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 07:27 pm |
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JS can bash me all he wants- for the same reason you mentioned
"It's like going up to the school bully on the playground" I have to confront them sooner or later. I believe he says things that other people don't - at least in public. In some ways it makes confronting him easier. Much easier than going in to a potential job interview with an HR "gatekeeper" that sees overweight/obese as a poor candidate for that spot. As far as what he calls fat (Above size six) LOl, he sounds like a character in "The devil wears prada" whatever size I get to that comes with abs, that's where I want to be
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MichelleP
Distinguished Member
| Joined: | 25 Mar 2009 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 717 |
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 08:10 pm |
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| I'd listen too Steam. JS isn't interested in helping anyone. He cannot stand for anyone to disagree with him and he is indeed a school yard bully.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 10:01 pm |
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Steampunk wrote: It's not a simple question. People I've known since elementary school don't even know much about me. I'm a private person, I was taught not to talk to people about things that bother me. Even today, if I'm talking with my Dad in public he'll shush me because he's afraid someone will overhear, even when it's something mundane. I grew up with it, I'm used to it. Trust me - many things have happened in my life that should have been acted upon. They weren't out of a fear of talking. To date, only a very small number of people know some of my most personal pains and I wouldn't consider you someone I'd divulge that kind of information to. Thankfully, I don't need to. As you said, with drunks, they need to know why they drank...I know why I do what I do, you don't actually have any kind of help to offer me as things stand.
Get over yourself and grow up. You have issues, perhaps it is time to grow a spine, get your ego in check and deal with them.
You have two choices. You can screw up your courage or you can hide and avoid the issues. Either way you have not given a clear and valid reason for why you cannot eat in a responsible manner in spite your "emotions".
Unless you suffered some major trauma you don't have an excuse and even then eating junk food and comfort food is not going fix what may or may not be the reason you have embraced gluttony.
You oversimplify everything. If you were a trained professional, you would be more effective. I'd talk with you in private if I believed you would actually help in some way but I know you wouldn't and that's where you lose a lot of your effectiveness. To help you actually have to care and you've made it quite clear that you do not.
You are still screwed up so obviously the so called professionals have not helped you. When I coach people they don't pay unless I am able to heal them. I won't accept payment for my failures.
If you really have deep emotional reasons for why you eat wrong I probably would not be anymore effective than the shrinks that exploit people like you. What I can do for you is challenge you on what I think is BS. What I think is BS may not be BS and I would give you every opportunity to prove what you say and think is not BS.
The reason people like MichelleP attack is because I challenge them on their BS and they are unwilling to give straight answers. You seem sincere as a person and your quest for help seems sincere.
If you suffered some sort of very bad personal trauma you have my sympathy but sympathy and 5 bucks will by you a Starbucks coffee.
When I help people I don't mollycoddle them. I learned along time ago that babying people is the worst thing you can do for them. If a kid skins his knee you don't make big deal of it. Remember in the movie Patton where he slaps the soldier with battle fatigue? That is exactly the right thing to do. It's been proven.
If you really have "emotional" issues eating irresponsibly will not solve them. It will only make the worse.
If you want to PM fine but I am not sure how much help I can be but I will listen to what you have to say and if you really have serious psychological issues I can put you in touch with the right kind of therapist who has the best chance of helping you.
You don't have to care about someone to help them. Many doctors don't give a rat's arse about their patients but the still help them sometimes. If I got to know you and and I liked you I would care but that would not make what I do anymore effective.
I actually like Tankgirl but I think I have given her a bit too much respect at times. You will have to earn my respect and when that happens you will be recovering. Tankgirl seems like a nice person but she still needs an occasional enema to flush out the fattitude when it builds up. I failed in showing her how to do that.
I think Tankgirl will be successful but I think it will be much harder for her than it needs to be. Michelle so far is a lost cause. She will eat herself into an early grave and maybe that will be a good thing.
Last edited on 20 Oct 2011 10:04 pm by JSABD
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 10:15 pm |
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Tankgirl wrote: JS can bash me all he wants- for the same reason you mentioned
"It's like going up to the school bully on the playground" I have to confront them sooner or later. I believe he says things that other people don't - at least in public. In some ways it makes confronting him easier. Much easier than going in to a potential job interview with an HR "gatekeeper" that sees overweight/obese as a poor candidate for that spot. As far as what he calls fat (Above size six) LOl, he sounds like a character in "The devil wears prada" whatever size I get to that comes with abs, that's where I want to be
What happened TankGIRL did you have a Big Mac Attack?
I welcome your "tete a tete", it keeps me on my toes,
Once again tankGIRL you put words in my mouth. I don't go by sizes to make an evaluation about weight. BMI works just fine and you know that. Stop with the dishonesty and BTW, how much do you weight now? God is watching.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 10:24 pm |
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MichelleP wrote: I'd listen too Steam. JS isn't interested in helping anyone. He cannot stand for anyone to disagree with him and he is indeed a school yard bully.
Steam, Michelle is a failure when it comes to not being fat and gluttonous and she lies. She posts pictures of normal women and she says they are her. She's delusional.
Think about it Steam, this is the TOUGH LOVE forum and nobody is forcing Mic#%@&!eP to come here. Ask her why she's really here. She's really here to fight with me. Fat girls crave attention from nice looking men even if it is negative attention.
Read everything Michelle has written and see if you can find anything that is helpful or positive.
Ask Michelle to post a picture of herself and see what happens.
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Steampunk
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 11:28 pm |
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"Get over yourself and grow up. You have issues, perhaps it is time to grow a spine, get your ego in check and deal with them."
Pain has nothing to do with "growing up". You experience pain all throughout your life regardless of your age, physical or mental. You act as if I'm full of myself which I don't understand. Get my ego in check? Get over myself? Dude?σΤιΌ?ͺI wish I had those problems. Even when I was in shape and working out all the time I was insecure. My doctor told me my weight was fine, that I was in good shape, to not worry about losing more and all I could think was, "10 more pounds". If I had an ego problem, I doubt I'd care so much.
"You can screw up your courage or you can hide and avoid the issues. Either way you have not given a clear and valid reason for why you cannot eat in a responsible manner in spite your "emotions"."
I never said I was hiding from anything. I'm aware of what my problems are, I don't see why I need to make those problems apparent to you unless I'm asking for your help (I wasn't, I was just answering your thread, there are some good discussions in this folder lol) so don't assume that just because you aren't privy to that knowledge that I'm ignoring it myself?σΤιΌ?ͺall it means is that you aren't privy to what I think and do about it. You can be tough, tell me not to have a thin skin, tell me to push through whatever is going on?σΤιΌ?ͺbut calling me names doesn't actually motivate me. Telling me I'm gluttonous doesn't help because I'm not and that's not the problem to address. You may as well call me a drug addict while you're at it, it would be just as useful and relevant. I prefer small meals and I know to eat all throughout the day and feel better doing it.
BTW...
glutton
one given habitually to greedy and voracious eating and drinking
We know what greedy is...I don't eat greedily. And just in case someone doesn't know what voracious is...
voracious
having a huge appetite : ravenous
I don't have a huge appetite either. The reason I split my meals up like I did earlier - buying a sandwich + salad but eating each separately as two meals - is because if I eat both together I get sick. It's just too much food.
"Unless you suffered some major trauma you don't have an excuse and even then eating junk food and comfort food is not going fix what may or may not be the reason you have embraced gluttony."
And I never said it *would* fix it. When I grab junk food, it's usually like a bag of chips from the vending machine down the hall. And when I do it, I don't think about it. Literally the entire way down the hallway and back up, I don't think about it. I'm thinking about what's bugging me and partway through the bag of chips, I'm like, "WTF am I eating these for?" Other times when I'm stressed or upset, I pace. Sometimes for the better part of an hour, sometimes for most of the night?σΤιΌ?ͺwhich makes going to class the following day so much fun, you have no idea?σΤιΌ?ͺ Both acts, in those instances, are compulsive. I'm not thinking about them, I'm not thinking about eating or pacing, I'm thinking about whatever is bothering me and then it occurs to me later that while I was obsessing, I was also doing something stupid.
Now, when I order food that is unhealthy consciously, I still don't overeat, the problem is that it's just horrible food and eating even a little is a dumb idea to begin with. The conscious stuff is obviously easier to control but both occurrences are down thankfully, I haven't done my "why am I eating" thing in weeks. The restaurant here served spaghetti and meatballs today and I passed up on it without any trouble. I'm feeling pretty good, I got my homework caught up and I'm on time with my new projects and I got a B on a midterm that the class averaged a low D on. =D
"You are still screwed up so obviously the so called professionals have not helped you. When I coach people they don't pay unless I am able to heal them. I won't accept payment for my failures."
I don't actually pay anything, I'm already paying tuition, may as well get the "free" help while I'm here. xD
I pay for the trainer, though. I have to take two PE classes and he's one of them. He's been great, I enjoy going enough that I signed up to work with him again next quarter for my second PE class credit.
"If you suffered some sort of very bad personal trauma you have my sympathy but sympathy and 5 bucks will by you a Starbucks coffee."
I don't need your sympathy, trust me, I didn't come in here looking for it. But if you actually seek to help people, you gotta know that you aren't dealing with the same thing each time. I used to work out all the time?σΤιΌ?ͺI started to put on weight when my boyfriend told me that I obsessed too much. We used to argue over it because he felt I was too focused on it and I thought he didn't understand. Mind you, he's really thin, I think the last time he was weighed he was 134 so before you ask or comment on him being fat?σΤιΌ?ͺhe's not.
There are a lot of things at play here. I have high standards for myself?σΤιΌ?ͺtoo high. Psychology term incoming - my achievement motivation is too high. It can either be low meaning you will seek out easy tasks to complete or it can be high meaning you will seek out moderately difficult tasks to complete, the idea being that you struggle but the goal is still obtainable. Well, my goals aren't usually realistic. I have a self-destructive streak?σΤιΌ?ͺI'm not sure where that comes from but I suspect from my Dad although I can't be sure. I've been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and social anxiety and trust me?σΤιΌ?ͺthe anxiety is a pain in the #%@&!. That's why I'm so psyched about having a trainer, I was afraid to look stupid in the gym before and he's showing me so much that I feel a lot better about going on my own now. And before you make some comment about toughening up, anxiety is pretty nasty, I don't feel comfortable doing some of the most mundane things. I just make myself do them now, that's how they teach you to get over it - pick things that make you uncomfortable and do them anyways.
Honestly, I just consider it all a part of the battle anymore.
As far as posting pictures goes, how do I know you posted one of yourself for real? How do we know anyone has? I wonder about a lot of the people here, like how old everyone is and whatnot. O.o
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Tankgirl
Distinguished Member
| Joined: | 1 Jul 2011 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 538 |
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Posted: 20 Oct 2011 11:41 pm |
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As far as the job interview scenario, that bias isn't necessarily all bad, just how it is. If bieng at a better weight puts me ahead of a more qualified candidate, that' s motivation, not whining. Since the majority of the us population is at least overwheight. it's safe to assume most of my competition will be, too.
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MichelleP
Distinguished Member
| Joined: | 25 Mar 2009 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 717 |
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Posted: 21 Oct 2011 07:47 am |
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| Steam has called you out on your bs too. Again, I did not post pics of myself on the Tough Love forums EVER, already covered this in another post. I've only been negative to you J. There are some great people around here who are positively supportive, just not JSABD.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 21 Oct 2011 04:02 pm |
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Steampunk wrote: "Get over yourself and grow up. You have issues, perhaps it is time to grow a spine, get your ego in check and deal with them."
Pain has nothing to do with "growing up". You experience pain all throughout your life regardless of your age, physical or mental. You act as if I'm full of myself which I don't understand. Get my ego in check? Get over myself? Dude?σΤιΌ?ͺI wish I had those problems. Even when I was in shape and working out all the time I was insecure. My doctor told me my weight was fine, that I was in good shape, to not worry about losing more and all I could think was, "10 more pounds". If I had an ego problem, I doubt I'd care so much.
Most people are full of themselves.
Well then, if your weight is fine, what are you doing on a weight loss site.
Pain? everyone has pain. This is a weight loss site, not a pain management site.
If you were in shape and still insecure then it is not your body that is making you insecure. It's your ego. You care that people think I will say it again. You care what people think. That is because you are egoistic. If you are behaving of a moral manner then there is no rational reason for you to care what people think.
If your shrink had given you the above sage advice you would not be F'd up today. You would have put the past in the past. Again, if you are being a good person then what other people think doesn't matter.
Here is what I think you should do. Walk up to a total stranger and tell him this: "I just got out of the nut house and I don't know what the date is now, can you tell me?" OR... go to kareoke and sing off key in front of a large crowd.
I bet public speaking really frightens you. Get over that fear.
"You can screw up your courage or you can hide and avoid the issues. Either way you have not given a clear and valid reason for why you cannot eat in a responsible manner in spite your "emotions"."
I never said I was hiding from anything. I'm aware of what my problems are, I don't see why I need to make those problems apparent to you unless I'm asking for your help (I wasn't, I was just answering your thread, there are some good discussions in this folder lol) so don't assume that just because you aren't privy to that knowledge that I'm ignoring it myself?σΤιΌ?ͺall it means is that you aren't privy to what I think and do about it. You can be tough, tell me not to have a thin skin, tell me to push through whatever is going on?σΤιΌ?ͺbut calling me names doesn't actually motivate me. Telling me I'm gluttonous doesn't help because I'm not and that's not the problem to address. You may as well call me a drug addict while you're at it, it would be just as useful and relevant. I prefer small meals and I know to eat all throughout the day and feel better doing it.
Do you think that you are adequately dealing with the problems you say you have?
I don't coddle people. If you are over eating then you are gluttonous. You may or may not have factors other than food lust for why you over eat but the fact that you over eat and over eating will not fix any of your problems.
BTW...
glutton
one given habitually to greedy and voracious eating and drinking
Great definition! That is what fat people do.
We know what greedy is...I don't eat greedily. And just in case someone doesn't know what voracious is...
voracious
having a huge appetite : ravenous
I don't have a huge appetite either. The reason I split my meals up like I did earlier - buying a sandwich + salad but eating each separately as two meals - is because if I eat both together I get sick. It's just too much food.
I am missing a lot of information about you. I don't know your weight. If you are grossly overweight it is because you are eating too many calories. Right?
The scientific reality is, if you eat 2000 calories a day the most weight you can maintain is 135 pounds.
"Unless you suffered some major trauma you don't have an excuse and even then eating junk food and comfort food is not going fix what may or may not be the reason you have embraced gluttony."
And I never said it *would* fix it. When I grab junk food, it's usually like a bag of chips from the vending machine down the hall. And when I do it, I don't think about it. Literally the entire way down the hallway and back up, I don't think about it. I'm thinking about what's bugging me and partway through the bag of chips, I'm like, "WTF am I eating these for?" Other times when I'm stressed or upset, I pace. Sometimes for the better part of an hour, sometimes for most of the night?σΤιΌ?ͺwhich makes going to class the following day so much fun, you have no idea?σΤιΌ?ͺ Both acts, in those instances, are compulsive. I'm not thinking about them, I'm not thinking about eating or pacing, I'm thinking about whatever is bothering me and then it occurs to me later that while I was obsessing, I was also doing something stupid.
Make a rule. NO JUNK FOOD! The more you repeat the pattern the more engrained it becomes. This may help. It's called self talk. Say this when you have food lust. "You don't have to do this anymore and repeat it and use the word YOU"
BUT... you trips to the vending machine may be more than psychological. Hunger is powerful. It has to be to keep us alive. There is a strong neurological component working here. If it were 100 years ago, you would have a tough time getting enough calories to make you fat. It is easy to get fat. that is why we need to eat mindfully. Your problem could be less psychological and more neurological. Look around you at all the fatties. Do you think that all of them have some deep emotional issue? They are merely lazy people who won't eat in a mindful and responsible manner.
Now, when I order food that is unhealthy consciously, I still don't overeat, the problem is that it's just horrible food and eating even a little is a dumb idea to begin with. The conscious stuff is obviously easier to control but both occurrences are down thankfully, I haven't done my "why am I eating" thing in weeks. The restaurant here served spaghetti and meatballs today and I passed up on it without any trouble. I'm feeling pretty good, I got my homework caught up and I'm on time with my new projects and I got a B on a midterm that the class averaged a low D on. =D
Again, with the foods available today one needs to eat mindfully and count calories. The difference between a slender woman and a chubby one is only about 500 calories a day. It is very easy to get 500 too many calories. A latte and a candy bar from the vending machine and you are 500 calories over the limit.
"You are still screwed up so obviously the so called professionals have not helped you. When I coach people they don't pay unless I am able to heal them. I won't accept payment for my failures."
I don't actually pay anything, I'm already paying tuition, may as well get the "free" help while I'm here. xD
I pay for the trainer, though. I have to take two PE classes and he's one of them. He's been great, I enjoy going enough that I signed up to work with him again next quarter for my second PE class credit.
Most shrinks are worthless. Somebody is paying for it. Personal trainers IMO are usually a waste of money but if this guy/gal is good then it may be worth it.
You don't need vague theories, you need to know the facts.
I worry that after you stop PE you will put on weight and that is why you need to eat mindfully. For a while assume that your weight issues if you have them are not caused by emotional triggers and that maybe you just do not know how to eat correctly and that perhaps you have a slightly stronger appetite than others. I tell my peeps who have a stronger than average appetite that they really have an advantage. That means that they can if they choose nutrient dense low calorie food they will be healthier than people with weaker appetite you remain lean on higher calorie foods.
"If you suffered some sort of very bad personal trauma you have my sympathy but sympathy and 5 bucks will by you a Starbucks coffee."
I don't need your sympathy, trust me, I didn't come in here looking for it. But if you actually seek to help people, you gotta know that you aren't dealing with the same thing each time. I used to work out all the time?σΤιΌ?ͺI started to put on weight when my boyfriend told me that I obsessed too much. We used to argue over it because he felt I was too focused on it and I thought he didn't understand. Mind you, he's really thin, I think the last time he was weighed he was 134 so before you ask or comment on him being fat?σΤιΌ?ͺhe's not.
Good for you! My sympathy for an injured person in not weakness.
It takes time to ferret out the real problem exactly BUT fatties in general share many characteristics and attitudes.
Don't go blaming your boyfriend. He did not shovel food into your mouth. Don't give him that power. He doesn't want it and he is not responsible for your behaviors. I hope you don't pin it on him. You very well may have some mild OCD. That's because you care too much what people think of you. EGO!
There are a lot of things at play here. I have high standards for myself?σΤιΌ?ͺtoo high. Psychology term incoming - my achievement motivation is too high.
Tell me why this is rational? Tell me why this is proportional and a positive thing?
Achievement is important to you and on the surface that is a good thing but you have taken it to far. It probably gets in the way of relationships. It make you unavailable and it keeps you from dealing with things that you may be avoiding.
It can either be low meaning you will seek out easy tasks to complete or it can be high meaning you will seek out moderately difficult tasks to complete, the idea being that you struggle but the goal is still obtainable. Well, my goals aren't usually realistic. I have a self-destructive streak?σΤιΌ?ͺI'm not sure where that comes from but I suspect from my Dad although I can't be sure. I've been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and social anxiety and trust me?σΤιΌ?ͺthe anxiety is a pain in the #%@&!. That's why I'm so psyched about having a trainer, I was afraid to look stupid in the gym before and he's showing me so much that I feel a lot better about going on my own now. And before you make some comment about toughening up, anxiety is pretty nasty, I don't feel comfortable doing some of the most mundane things. I just make myself do them now, that's how they teach you to get over it - pick things that make you uncomfortable and do them anyways.
You are egoistic and I am not saying that to be mean. That explains the social anxiety. You care far too much what people think.
Shrinks and doctors today diagnose everyone with depression and anxiety and the medicate the #%@&! out of people. I have a friend who suffered panic attacks and the shrinks kept telling him it was a panic/anxiety disorder that their answer was to dope him up and addict him to meds. He did not have anxiety. What happened is that he have been given too much cortisone and that can cause severe panic attacks that can last for years.
Anxiety: Have you had a thorough physical examination? A lot of this could be hormonal and I am not just talking estrogen imbalance.
I recommend yoga and relaxation for you. You are a very driven person. You sound a bit hyper vigilant and a bit obsessive. I think you need to focus on priorities. I also think that you are seeking approval of a parent. You are an adult now. You can knock that off.
Honestly, I just consider it all a part of the battle anymore.
As far as posting pictures goes, how do I know you posted one of yourself for real? How do we know anyone has? I wonder about a lot of the people here, like how old everyone is and whatnot. O.o
A fat acceptance shill challenged me to post a picture of myself with JSABD on it. She was accusing me of being fat. That is me. I covered my face because I have received death threats from some fatties in the FA movement.
Don't think of this as a battle. Outsmart what is going on and make peace with reality.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 21 Oct 2011 04:04 pm |
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Tankgirl wrote: As far as the job interview scenario, that bias isn't necessarily all bad, just how it is. If bieng at a better weight puts me ahead of a more qualified candidate, that' s motivation, not whining. Since the majority of the us population is at least overwheight. it's safe to assume most of my competition will be, too.
I would never hire a fatty. They are less productive.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 21 Oct 2011 04:06 pm |
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MichelleP wrote: Steam has called you out on your bs too. Again, I did not post pics of myself on the Tough Love forums EVER, already covered this in another post. I've only been negative to you J. There are some great people around here who are positively supportive, just not JSABD.
Do you ever not lie?
Let's see a current pix of you? You posted pix of women who you though resembled you and you got outed.
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Tankgirl
Distinguished Member
| Joined: | 1 Jul 2011 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 538 |
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Posted: 21 Oct 2011 05:05 pm |
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See the advantage then? I don't think you're the only one.
In my state the obesity rate is 60%. Assuming this holds for the average 10 people that make it to the interview stage, There goes over half the competition 
Edited to add http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/10/state_police_plans_hiring_-_if.html how's this for perfect timing?Last edited on 21 Oct 2011 06:25 pm by Tankgirl
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Steampunk
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 22 Oct 2011 05:24 pm |
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"Pain? everyone has pain. This is a weight loss site, not a pain management site."
I know but you asked about my emotions. xD
"You care what people think."
Actually, that time it was all me. Even when I was in shape I saw fat on my stomach, fat on my thighs, fat on my hips, and fat on my arms. It had nothing to do with what other people thought and everything to do with me seeing imperfections everywhere.
"I bet public speaking really frightens you. Get over that fear."
Not really. It used to but I took a Rhetoric class and got better at it. I've repeatedly made myself speak in public over the past 4 years and I'm pretty good at it now. I'm very aware of when things frighten me that shouldn't and I try my #%@&!edest not to run.
"Do you think that you are adequately dealing with the problems you say you have?"
Mm, not really but then again, a person could *always* do better.
"If you are grossly overweight it is because you are eating too many calories. Right?"
Yes, but what I'm saying is that this doesn't make you a glutton. A glutton would be someone who has a voracious, greedy appetite. Someone who eats the wrong food - but doesn't overeat - isn't gluttonous, they are merely eating the wrong thing. Let me put it this way?σΤιΌ?ͺlet's say you eat X amount of pizza. I eat the same amount of food but instead of pizza, I eat a salad. You've taken in more calories with the same amount of food. It's not gluttonous, it's the wrong food. When someone says, "You are being a glutton", it means you are being greedy, you are hogging things. If you're hogging food, yes, you're a glutton. If you're packing on the calories eating pure junk, you aren't really a glutton, you're just flat out unhealthy. It has more to do with how much you are eating.
"Personal trainers IMO are usually a waste of money but if this guy/gal is good then it may be worth it."
Well, he's showing me exercises that I otherwise wouldn't have known about. He's also showing me how to use machines I otherwise wouldn't have attempted. It gives me courage to go in and do them on my own. And like I said, I'm in college and I'm required to take two PE classes. He counts so I'm taking him this quarter and next.
"Don't go blaming your boyfriend. He did not shovel food into your mouth."
No, but do you think a good boyfriend would tell his girlfriend not to watch what she eats? Would you tell your wife that? Up until a few months ago, he was still telling me that I shouldn't have to restrict myself, that I should just work out and be a little more cautious with food. I kept explaining that I need to create a deficit, that I can't go eating pizza and pasta and #%@&! like that and he said that I was putting too much thought into what I eat and I should just work out. You have to work out, yes, but if you eat 2000+ calories, do you really think you are going to burn enough of that off in the gym to create the deficit you need and want? #%@&! no. So yeah, I want to eat healthier. I want to eat more salads, cut out soda and junk food, and only treat myself once in a very rare blue moon. I don't think he should be telling me that's a bad idea. I'm not starving, I feel perfectly fine. No, no?σΤιΌ?ͺI feel *better* like this.
I know that he cares, I know he's doing the same thing my Mom does - "Are you sure you don't want some ice cream?" - but it's not helping me. They both know, no, I don't want ice cream, I don't want chips, I don't want candy, I don't want ramen. Stop buying it for me, #%@&!?σΤιΌ?ͺ >_<
"I covered my face because I have received death threats from some fatties in the FA movement."
That's why I try to remain relatively anonymous myself. You never know who is out there, I don't feel comfortable sharing a lot of info with random people.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 24 Oct 2011 06:17 pm |
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Steampunk wrote: "Pain? everyone has pain. This is a weight loss site, not a pain management site."
I know but you asked about my emotions. xD
I what ways do you think your "emotions" are making you unable to eat in a healthy manner?
"You care what people think."
Actually, that time it was all me. Even when I was in shape I saw fat on my stomach, fat on my thighs, fat on my hips, and fat on my arms. It had nothing to do with what other people thought and everything to do with me seeing imperfections everywhere.
Then you were being egoistic, narcissistic and a perfectionist. If you didn't like the way your body looked why did you look at it? You were concerned what others thought. Don't BS me.
"I bet public speaking really frightens you. Get over that fear."
Not really. It used to but I took a Rhetoric class and got better at it. I've repeatedly made myself speak in public over the past 4 years and I'm pretty good at it now. I'm very aware of when things frighten me that shouldn't and I try my #%@&!edest not to run.
Then why are you running from reality?
"Do you think that you are adequately dealing with the problems you say you have?"
Mm, not really but then again, a person could *always* do better.
"If you are grossly overweight it is because you are eating too many calories. Right?"
Yes, but what I'm saying is that this doesn't make you a glutton. A glutton would be someone who has a voracious, greedy appetite. Someone who eats the wrong food - but doesn't overeat - isn't gluttonous, they are merely eating the wrong thing. Let me put it this way?σΤιΌ?ͺlet's say you eat X amount of pizza. I eat the same amount of food but instead of pizza, I eat a salad. You've taken in more calories with the same amount of food. It's not gluttonous, it's the wrong food. When someone says, "You are being a glutton", it means you are being greedy, you are hogging things. If you're hogging food, yes, you're a glutton. If you're packing on the calories eating pure junk, you aren't really a glutton, you're just flat out unhealthy. It has more to do with how much you are eating.
A glutton is someone who eat more than he or she requires. They wrong foods are the hedonistic foods.
The fact that you didn't get educated about how to eat also indicates gluttony and hedonism. Eating the "wrong" foods day after day after day with no pause for concern or evaluation is greedy hedonistic gluttony.
"Personal trainers IMO are usually a waste of money but if this guy/gal is good then it may be worth it."
Well, he's showing me exercises that I otherwise wouldn't have known about. He's also showing me how to use machines I otherwise wouldn't have attempted. It gives me courage to go in and do them on my own. And like I said, I'm in college and I'm required to take two PE classes. He counts so I'm taking him this quarter and next.
I will cut you some slack because you are young but I see you setting yourself up for failure. When PE is over and you don't have access to the gym equipment it will open you up to a full set of excuses and rationalizations. You don't need a gym or a personal trainer not to be fat.
"Don't go blaming your boyfriend. He did not shovel food into your mouth."
No, but do you think a good boyfriend would tell his girlfriend not to watch what she eats? Would you tell your wife that? Up until a few months ago, he was still telling me that I shouldn't have to restrict myself, that I should just work out and be a little more cautious with food. I kept explaining that I need to create a deficit, that I can't go eating pizza and pasta and #%@&! like that and he said that I was putting too much thought into what I eat and I should just work out. You have to work out, yes, but if you eat 2000+ calories, do you really think you are going to burn enough of that off in the gym to create the deficit you need and want? #%@&! no. So yeah, I want to eat healthier. I want to eat more salads, cut out soda and junk food, and only treat myself once in a very rare blue moon. I don't think he should be telling me that's a bad idea. I'm not starving, I feel perfectly fine. No, no?σΤιΌ?ͺI feel *better* like this.
I think a good BF would tell his GF if she is eating like a glutton. Honesty is the best policy and I think a good GF would eat responsibly if not for herself but for him. If my wife acted like a little piggy I would take it a s sign of disrespect.
You BF is full of poo. You know your body. I think maybe he wants you to be fat. Most men find fat women repulsive. Your BF sounds insecure.
I don't know how intense or frequent your workouts are. On a sedentary female your age 2000 calories can maintain about 135 pounds.
Your BF should be encouraging you to eat healthy foods. If he's not he does not have your best interest at heart.
I know that he cares, I know he's doing the same thing my Mom does - "Are you sure you don't want some ice cream?" - but it's not helping me. They both know, no, I don't want ice cream, I don't want chips, I don't want candy, I don't want ramen. Stop buying it for me, #%@&!?σΤιΌ?ͺ >_<
They sound like enablers and saboteurs. Moms are often jealous of their daughters. It sounds like they want you to be fat and unattractive. You may want to lay down the law to the two of them. They should be concerned about your health. Tell them both... NO JUNK FOOD FOR ME! PERIOD!!
"I covered my face because I have received death threats from some fatties in the FA movement."
That's why I try to remain relatively anonymous myself. You never know who is out there, I don't feel comfortable sharing a lot of info with random people.
I don't want any personal information like your real name or address.
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Steampunk
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 25 Oct 2011 05:34 pm |
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"I what ways do you think your "emotions" are making you unable to eat in a healthy manner?"
You say this as if I'm continually eating unhealthy, like I'm sitting here with a huge #%@&! pizza as I type this message or something?σΤιΌ?ͺ It's not as bad as you make it out to be, I've already made changes, I don't even know how we keep going around this point when I'm already taking better care of myself. xD
I'm not saying that I am "unable" to eat healthy when I'm upset or stressed. That's a little too dramatic of a statement. I'm saying I can do the wrong things when I'm upset or stressed. You don't seem to be the sort who has ever really had any major problems, I don't think you would be able to understand. I'm a big believer in people not really being able to understand situations they haven't actually been in themselves which is why, sometimes, I actually think counselors can be full of bull themselves.
"Then you were being egoistic, narcissistic and a perfectionist. If you didn't like the way your body looked why did you look at it? You were concerned what others thought. Don't BS me."
So then you are egotistical, narcissistic, and a perfectionist yourself. You clearly care what you look like and you can't say, "Well that's for myself" but deny me the same thing. And you can't say it's just for health because absolutely no one can honestly say they don't care what they look like to others. You gotta be careful making statements that also apply to yourself, some of yours are too general and you can't exclude yourself from them so easily.
Not only that but you say that you think your wife should look a certain way for you. So she's staying in shape for you?σΤιΌ?ͺshe's concerned about her weight for *you*?σΤιΌ?ͺso that makes her egotistical, narcissistic, and a perfectionist, too. She's just as concerned with what you think and what others think as well, I'm sure. So now you're the one BSing me.
"Then why are you running from reality?"
I'm not?σΤιΌ?ͺ O.o
See, this is what I was saying before. This, what you do at times, isn't tough love. You exaggerate and it's way, way too dramatic, take it down a notch or two. You act as if I'm denying that I'm overweight. I'm not. You act as if I'm pretending it "just happened". It didn't, I started putting it on about 3 years ago. I've pinpointed my problems, you just don't like what I have to say but that doesn't mean you have the ability to actually edit my life to suit you. O.o
Keep in mind, I don't actually need help, I have a pretty good support system. I just answered your thread because I see this particular folder as the one with the most discussion and I like talking. =/
"The fact that you didn't get educated about how to eat also indicates gluttony and hedonism. Eating the "wrong" foods day after day after day with no pause for concern or evaluation is greedy hedonistic gluttony."
You're interpreting the definition differently is all. Thankfully, I happen to like English so I won't budge on my interpretation of the term so we can agree to disagree. =)
Now, as far as hedonism goes, you're getting pretty dramatic again there. You're basically accusing me of being a hedonist based on very small shreds of information that you've added to with your assumptions. But if you actually get down to the bare bones of the issue, down to what I've said and not what you've assumed, you've got a girl who made stupid decisions and is fixing them. You don't have a hedonist. Again, you're being way too dramatic and getting all worked up, try to take a deep breath and pull it back a bit. Accusing a total stranger of being a hedonist is kinda much.
"When PE is over and you don't have access to the gym equipment it will open you up to a full set of excuses and rationalizations."
Doubtful that will happen. I shop a lot better than my family does and there's no reason I'd stop going to the gym. Why would I? I'm graduating, I'll be on my own. Are the gyms all going to disappear off the face of the planet by 2012? x.x
"You don't need a gym or a personal trainer not to be fat."
So now you dislike gyms? Or are you assuming that, for some reason, I won't be anywhere near one? Trust me, I don't intend to live that far away from civilization after I graduate.
"On a sedentary female your age 2000 calories can maintain about 135 pounds."
I'm not maintaining that weight though, I'm attempting to lose weight which means I have to create a deficit. So I think I need to cut out the junk food and make it a full on lifestyle change that I maintain permanently. I don't mean starve myself but I think, for example, cutting out junk food permanently is a good thing. I've had almost no soda and don't feel the need to get any; you won't find one bottle or can of it in my room. How many calories do you think that would add up to over time? One bottle of soda is how many calories on average? And if you add it up, it starts to really matter.
I don't like "diets". To me, a diet is temporary. I'll cut out this, this, and this until I reach XYZ weight. Well what about after that? You stop the diet, what happens if you don't know how to eat right? It's gotta be a permanent sort of change, you gotta learn from it.
"NO JUNK FOOD FOR ME! PERIOD!!"
Way ahead of you, I already called home and told everyone not to buy me any junk food. Keep it away, don't need it, won't eat it, waste of money, just buy me some healthy stuff instead.
"I think maybe he wants you to be fat. Most men find fat women repulsive. Your BF sounds insecure."
You know, I actually accused him of sabotaging me once because when I'm in shape, I actually get a fair amount of attention. Not like crazy, "OMG YOURE HOT" action, I'm still pretty shy but I get some looks. When I met him, he was one of a few guys I was interested in but he and I had more of a history so I picked him. I'm not the type to cheat and I was crazy about him but he's definitely insecure so I started to wonder if he was just trying to keep me out of shape to keep the attention off of me. He said he wasn't but who would actually admit to that anyways?
"I don't want any personal information like your real name or address."
No, but people can't necessarily identify you from one picture, either. Possible but unlikely so you're actually relatively safe as far as proving who you are goes, IMO.
As far as this personal trainer thing goes, you don't seem to like them much but I don't think you should be picky if what someone is doing is getting them active in a healthy, responsible sort of way. At that point, you're just being kinda nitpicky and looking for excuses to complain. He just inspires me and I think that's positive. The other people at the gym inspire me, too. I've set goals that I actually want to achieve, I want to be able to lift more weights, when I see that increase I'll be thrilled. And I want to see how good of a runner I can be. It's just a positive environment for me to be in and I've enjoyed it.
I think we've gone around the loop enough times, we're just sort of repeating stuff at this point and that's when the conversation becomes somewhat old so I thank ya for the discussion and I take my leave! If something else strikes my fancy in here, I'll be back. That may or may not be a threat?σΤιΌ?ͺ :oLast edited on 25 Oct 2011 05:39 pm by Steampunk
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Steampunk
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 25 Oct 2011 05:37 pm |
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Although, I also have to say?σΤιΌ?ͺyou flip flop a lot?σΤιΌ?ͺ
"It seems to me that if one were powerless over alcohol they would have very little chance of reform."
You say that in your OP but then you mock anyone who says they aren't powerless over food. So what you are saying, in essence, is that we "have very little chance of reform". You see what I'm saying? You can't make a statement like that and then attack anyone who says, "No, I am not powerless over food". Because you are then attempting to convince us that we are powerless over food which, when paired with the above statement, means we're a lost cause.
Just leaving you with some food for thought because fluctuating advice is confusing. =)
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 26 Oct 2011 12:36 am |
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Steampunk wrote: Although, I also have to say?σΤιΌ?ͺyou flip flop a lot?σΤιΌ?ͺ
"It seems to me that if one were powerless over alcohol they would have very little chance of reform."
You say that in your OP but then you mock anyone who says they aren't powerless over food. So what you are saying, in essence, is that we "have very little chance of reform". You see what I'm saying? You can't make a statement like that and then attack anyone who says, "No, I am not powerless over food". Because you are then attempting to convince us that we are powerless over food which, when paired with the above statement, means we're a lost cause.
The advice is not fluctuating. You are confused. People are not powerless of food or booze unless they choose to be. I am not trying to convince fatlings that they are powerless over food. Food holds no power. They may be temporarily powerless over their gluttony.
You are only a lost case if you choose to believe you are. Gluttony is a moral failing.
Just leaving you with some food for thought because fluctuating advice is confusing. =)
Get unconfused. Gluttons want to believe that they are powerless so that their egos can justify their gluttony.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 26 Oct 2011 01:23 am |
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Steampunk wrote: "I what ways do you think your "emotions" are making you unable to eat in a healthy manner?"
You say this as if I'm continually eating unhealthy, like I'm sitting here with a huge #%@&! pizza as I type this message or something?σΤιΌ?ͺ It's not as bad as you make it out to be, I've already made changes, I don't even know how we keep going around this point when I'm already taking better care of myself. xD
If you are fat then you are eating a lot of unhealthy food. I can tell you exactly how many calories you are over eating.
I'm not saying that I am "unable" to eat healthy when I'm upset or stressed. That's a little too dramatic of a statement. I'm saying I can do the wrong things when I'm upset or stressed. You don't seem to be the sort who has ever really had any major problems, I don't think you would be able to understand. I'm a big believer in people not really being able to understand situations they haven't actually been in themselves which is why, sometimes, I actually think counselors can be full of bull themselves.
You are the one unable to sort your behavior out. Counselors suck because they use the wrong approach. You have made statements and some sound like BS to me so I am challenging you on them to make you think differently and more logically. You may have some logical ideas but I want you to understand the rational ones and know the difference. I may confront you on something that you say that I may think is rational or irrational. It's to get you to think more critically and rationally. It's a valid therapeutic method. I don't counsel, I coach.
"Then you were being egoistic, narcissistic and a perfectionist. If you didn't like the way your body looked why did you look at it? You were concerned what others thought. Don't BS me."
So then you are egotistical, narcissistic, and a perfectionist yourself. You clearly care what you look like and you can't say, "Well that's for myself" but deny me the same thing. And you can't say it's just for health because absolutely no one can honestly say they don't care what they look like to others. You gotta be careful making statements that also apply to yourself, some of yours are too general and you can't exclude yourself from them so easily.
I don't care what I look like. I'm not fat because it's socially responsible. I don't have to look at myself but my wife does. I do it for her. I owe her that. My good looks are a byproduct of my behavior.
Not only that but you say that you think your wife should look a certain way for you. So she's staying in shape for you?σΤιΌ?ͺshe's concerned about her weight for *you*?σΤιΌ?ͺso that makes her egotistical, narcissistic, and a perfectionist, too. She's just as concerned with what you think and what others think as well, I'm sure. So now you're the one BSing me.
My wife is a humble woman. She looks good for me because she knows I deserve it. She owes it to me and our kids to be healthy. They byproduct of being healthy is attractiveness.
"Then why are you running from reality?"
I'm not?σΤιΌ?ͺ O.o
See, this is what I was saying before. This, what you do at times, isn't tough love. You exaggerate and it's way, way too dramatic, take it down a notch or two. You act as if I'm denying that I'm overweight. I'm not. You act as if I'm pretending it "just happened". It didn't, I started putting it on about 3 years ago. I've pinpointed my problems, you just don't like what I have to say but that doesn't mean you have the ability to actually edit my life to suit you. O.o
All I know is that you are fat and you did it to yourself.
I pinpointed your problems. You willfully eat to much. The reason you do is becasue you like it. Why is it anymore complicated with this?
Keep in mind, I don't actually need help, I have a pretty good support system. I just answered your thread because I see this particular folder as the one with the most discussion and I like talking. =/
Support systems don't work. If they did WW would work and it doesn't.
"The fact that you didn't get educated about how to eat also indicates gluttony and hedonism. Eating the "wrong" foods day after day after day with no pause for concern or evaluation is greedy hedonistic gluttony."
You're interpreting the definition differently is all. Thankfully, I happen to like English so I won't budge on my interpretation of the term so we can agree to disagree. =)
Playing semantics will not help you.
Now, as far as hedonism goes, you're getting pretty dramatic again there. You're basically accusing me of being a hedonist based on very small shreds of information that you've added to with your assumptions. But if you actually get down to the bare bones of the issue, down to what I've said and not what you've assumed, you've got a girl who made stupid decisions and is fixing them. You don't have a hedonist. Again, you're being way too dramatic and getting all worked up, try to take a deep breath and pull it back a bit. Accusing a total stranger of being a hedonist is kinda much.
I a basing the fact that you are a hedonist and a glutton based on the fact that you are fat and the fact that you cannot explain why that is not there reason you are fat.
You have chronically and willfully made bad decisions that led to you being fat. We call that gluttony.
"When PE is over and you don't have access to the gym equipment it will open you up to a full set of excuses and rationalizations."
Doubtful that will happen. I shop a lot better than my family does and there's no reason I'd stop going to the gym. Why would I? I'm graduating, I'll be on my own. Are the gyms all going to disappear off the face of the planet by 2012? x.x
What if you get hurt or pull a muscle? You won't go.What if you get hurt or pull a muscle? You won't go.
"You don't need a gym or a personal trainer not to be fat."
So now you dislike gyms? Or are you assuming that, for some reason, I won't be anywhere near one? Trust me, I don't intend to live that far away from civilization after I graduate.
How did you make the leap to I don't like gyms? Where did I say I don't like gyms. All I am saying is that you don't need a gym not to be fat. Also, exercise is for getting fit not slender.
"On a sedentary female your age 2000 calories can maintain about 135 pounds."
I'm not maintaining that weight though, I'm attempting to lose weight which means I have to create a deficit. So I think I need to cut out the junk food and make it a full on lifestyle change that I maintain permanently. I don't mean starve myself but I think, for example, cutting out junk food permanently is a good thing. I've had almost no soda and don't feel the need to get any; you won't find one bottle or can of it in my room. How many calories do you think that would add up to over time? One bottle of soda is how many calories on average? And if you add it up, it starts to really matter.
12 oz of soda has how many calories? Look it up or look on the can.
I don't like "diets". To me, a diet is temporary. I'll cut out this, this, and this until I reach XYZ weight. Well what about after that? You stop the diet, what happens if you don't know how to eat right? It's gotta be a permanent sort of change, you gotta learn from it.
Don't call it a diet. It's a weight loss plan.
"NO JUNK FOOD FOR ME! PERIOD!!"
Way ahead of you, I already called home and told everyone not to buy me any junk food. Keep it away, don't need it, won't eat it, waste of money, just buy me some healthy stuff instead.
"I think maybe he wants you to be fat. Most men find fat women repulsive. Your BF sounds insecure."
You know, I actually accused him of sabotaging me once because when I'm in shape, I actually get a fair amount of attention. Not like crazy, "OMG YOURE HOT" action, I'm still pretty shy but I get some looks. When I met him, he was one of a few guys I was interested in but he and I had more of a history so I picked him. I'm not the type to cheat and I was crazy about him but he's definitely insecure so I started to wonder if he was just trying to keep me out of shape to keep the attention off of me. He said he wasn't but who would actually admit to that anyways?
A lot of young guys are insecure but when that insecurity encroaches on another person's autonomy or well being it's a problem. If he can't handle a fit and confident woman then he needs a shrinking violet. When you love someone you want to see them actualize their potential as a human.
"I don't want any personal information like your real name or address."
No, but people can't necessarily identify you from one picture, either. Possible but unlikely so you're actually relatively safe as far as proving who you are goes, IMO.
As far as this personal trainer thing goes, you don't seem to like them much but I don't think you should be picky if what someone is doing is getting them active in a healthy, responsible sort of way. At that point, you're just being kinda nitpicky and looking for excuses to complain. He just inspires me and I think that's positive. The other people at the gym inspire me, too. I've set goals that I actually want to achieve, I want to be able to lift more weights, when I see that increase I'll be thrilled. And I want to see how good of a runner I can be. It's just a positive environment for me to be in and I've enjoyed it.
Most trainers I know are rep counters and cheerleaders.
There are two kind of people. Inner motivated and outer motivated. You seem to be outer motivated. You don't need outside inspiration. You need some self love that tells you that you deserve to be health and empowered.
A trainer is good is he or she is a good teacher. Could this trainer be giving you things your BF isn't? It sounds like the trainer want to see you do well. Maybe that is why you are impressed by him?
I think we've gone around the loop enough times, we're just sort of repeating stuff at this point and that's when the conversation becomes somewhat old so I thank ya for the discussion and I take my leave! If something else strikes my fancy in here, I'll be back. That may or may not be a threat?σΤιΌ?ͺ :o
Know that you are NOT powerless to change your food choices and get to and maintain a healthy weight.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 26 Oct 2011 01:29 am |
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MichelleP wrote: Steam has called you out on your bs too. Again, I did not post pics of myself on the Tough Love forums EVER, already covered this in another post. I've only been negative to you J. There are some great people around here who are positively supportive, just not JSABD.
Steam is a nice young lady who has real stressors and and saboteurs that have added to her weighing to much for her own good. She seems sincere but a bit confused. She is here for help. Why are you here?
One more question P girl. if you don't like the Tough Love forum then why are you here? It's easy to be nice to Bama, Tank and Steam. There is no reason for me to be respectful of the likes of you.
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 27 Oct 2011 09:07 am |
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| (observe - as you're responding to a message from 5 days ago, you can only know for certain that MichelleP was here in the past, not that she is here right now)
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youhhhh
Member
| Joined: | 12 Jul 2012 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 24 |
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Posted: 12 Jul 2012 05:05 am |
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YEs at many times i feel powerless over food ,i 'd go my day very much in control ,watching out for each calorie ,even excersing and then when it comes at night ,i can not sleep ,simply i cant sleep,i just take one nap then all the daemons come out of me and go heading the fridge eating everything i can find even i f i don really like eating during the day .
Sometimes i really feel that i cant do it ,i will live my life in this choppy body ,i know it sounds pathetic but i have been trying for long now .
And it would be selfish to think this way but maybe i m not that good to my family anyways and better to let go.
What good my kids would expect from me if i m that much not in control ,they will turn out to be that pathetic too
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 13 Jul 2012 05:07 am |
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youhhhh wrote: YEs at many times i feel powerless over food ,i 'd go my day very much in control ,watching out for each calorie ,even excersing and then when it comes at night ,i can not sleep ,simply i cant sleep,i just take one nap then all the daemons come out of me and go heading the fridge eating everything i can find even i f i don really like eating during the day .
Sometimes i really feel that i cant do it ,i will live my life in this choppy body ,i know it sounds pathetic but i have been trying for long now .
And it would be selfish to think this way but maybe i m not that good to my family anyways and better to let go.
What good my kids would expect from me if i m that much not in control ,they will turn out to be that pathetic too
You are off to a good start you are honest. We can get your nutrition squared away.
The truth is we are all powerless over food in the same way we are powerless over air. We are not powerless over junk food.
Unlike alcohol humans require food.
We can help you. Don't give up. It gets easier.
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 13 Jul 2012 08:41 am |
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Are You a Compulsive Overeater?
Now that you have found Overeaters Anonymous, you may want to make sure our program is right for you. Many of us have found it useful to answer the following questions to help determine if we have a problem with compulsive eating.
Do I eat when I?σΤιΌΤδσm not hungry, or not eat when my body needs nourishment?
Do I go on eating binges for no apparent reason, sometimes eating until I?σΤιΌΤδσm stuffed or even feel sick?
Do I have feelings of guilt, shame or embarrassment about my weight or the way I eat?
Do I eat sensibly in front of others and then make up for it when I am alone?
Is my eating affecting my health or the way I live my life?
When my emotions are intense?σΤιΌΤΗΨwhether positive or negative?σΤιΌΤΗΨdo I find myself reaching for food?
Do my eating behaviors make me or others unhappy?
Have I ever used laxatives, vomiting, diuretics, excessive exercise, diet pills, shots or other medical interventions (including surgery) to try to control my weight?
Do I fast or severely restrict my food intake to control my weight?
Do I fantasize about how much better life would be if I were a different size or weight?
Do I need to chew or have something in my mouth all the time: food, gum, mints, candies or beverages?
Have I ever eaten food that is burned, frozen or spoiled; from containers in the grocery store; or out of the garbage?
Are there certain foods I can?σΤιΌΤδσt stop eating after having the first bite?
Have I lost weight with a diet or ?σΤιΌ?τperiod of control?σΤιΌ?Ψ only to be followed by bouts of uncontrolled eating and/or weight gain?
Do I spend too much time thinking about food, arguing with myself about whether or what to eat, planning the next diet or exercise cure, or counting calories?
Have you answered ?σΤιΌ?τyes?σΤιΌ?Ψ to several of these questions? If so, it is possible that you have, or are well on your way to having, a compulsive eating or overeating problem.
We have found that the way to arrest this progressive disease is to practice the Twelve-Step recovery program of Overeaters Anonymous. Overeaters Anonymous is a fellowship of individuals who, through shared experience, strength and hope, are recovering from compulsive overeating. We welcome everyone who wants to stop eating compulsively. There are no dues or fees for members; we are self-supporting through our own contributions, neither soliciting nor accepting outside donations. OA is not affiliated with any public or private organization, political movement, ideology or religious doctrine; we take no position on outside issues. Our primary purpose is to abstain from compulsive overeating and to carry this message of recovery to those who still suffer.
Is OA for You?
Only you can decide that question. No one else can make this decision for you. We who are now in OA have found a way of life which enables us to live without the need for excess food. We believe that compulsive eating is a progressive illness, one that, like alcoholism and some other illnesses, can be arrested. Remember, there is no shame in admitting you have a problem; the most important thing is to do something about it.
http://www.oa.org/newcomers/is-oa-for-you/
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