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CG Brady
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Posted: 8 Feb 2010 03:39 am |
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A gastric bypass surgeon/butcher will tell you that 1 in 2000 people die from gastric bypass. The organization of gastric surgeon will tell you that 1 in 200 die from it. The CDC will tell you that 1 in 100 doe from it but CBS News says it is 1 in 50 within the first 30 days.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/21/earlyshow/contributors/melindamurphy/main668323.shtml
One in two hundred is the number of people who die from gastric banding.
Doctors are filthy liars so they will blame the deaths on the patient being fat and unhealthy to begin with but they would be lying as usual. Here are the reasons why so many people die from this form of weight loss surgery.
That is not to fright anybody of the complications of Gastric Bypass, but the reality is that Gastric Bypass like any other major surgery has complications that may lead to death.
A study showed that 1 in 50 people die within a month of doing bypass surgery when means 2%, that is really a high rate.
Gastric bypass surgery makes the stomach smaller and allows food to bypass part of the small intestine. You will feel full more quickly than when your stomach was its original size, which reduces the amount of food you eat and thus the calories consumed. Bypassing part of the intestine also results in fewer calories being absorbed. This leads to weight loss.
The statistics of gastric bypass complications are:
. Leakage- 5%
. Ulcer ?σΤιΌΤΗ£ 4 %
. Hernias ?σΤιΌΤΗ£ 2.5 %
. Gallstones ?σΤιΌΤΗ£ 2 %
. Stomal Stenosis ?σΤιΌΤΗ£ 1.5 %
. Death ?σΤιΌΤΗ£ 2 %
. Blood clots ?σΤιΌΤΗ£ .8 %
. Severe infection ?σΤιΌΤΗ£ .5 %
http://www.slimbandtoronto.com/1-in-50-people-die-within-a-month-of-gastic-bypass-surgery.htm
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20041007/studies-weigh-risks-of-gastric-bypass-surgery?src=rss_foxnews
Doctors are incredibly stupid and greedy. They forget that humans have a 25' long small intestine for a good reason. That reason is digestion. Gastric create a small pouch in the stomach.
This diagram does not tell the whole story. The short part of the small intestine is connected to the "pouch" by the butcher. Only a few feet of the small intestine actually receives food from the stomach. A few feet down the line the longer part is attached to the short part of the small intestine that receives food form the pouch/stomach.
This is a stupid thing to do for many reasons but here are a few. The function of the stomach is to mechanically and chemically break down food. It needs to be the way nature designed it to accomplish that vital task. The stomach prepare the food for the small intestine where 90% of digestion and absorption takes place.
The SI (Small intestine) further breaks down food but more importantly it absorbs the nutrients we need. Absorption takes time. The is a mechanical action called peristalsis that moves the food along. What happens after gastric bypass is something called dumping syndrome and the undigested food moves too quickly in the large intestine and then into the adult diaper or a toilet if you can get to one quickly enough.
Digestion 101 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestion
IMO weight loss surgery is barbaric and should be a crime.
Your thoughts?
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tourproven
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 8 Feb 2010 01:01 pm |
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| For about the first time ever, I agree with you.
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CG Brady
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Posted: 9 Feb 2010 04:21 am |
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tourproven wrote: For about the first time ever, I agree with you.
I have talked with a lot of people who have had it and they remind me of a person who got swindled yet is still trying to convince themselves they weren't.
I have a Kaiser Permanente WLS release form. It is page after page listing the many dangers of WLS. It has to be signed about 10 times by the patient yet people are willing to walk into the meat grinder that is WLS. People are willing to have a perfectly healthy digestive system mangled because they either believe they or know they won't lose weight by eating less and moving more. I see is as a lazy way out that goes along with the buy your way thin mentality. I see is as an impulsive and uninformed choice. I also think that many surgeons to a pretty good sales job on patients so what they sign the release without ever reading or understanding it.
I believe it was Florence Nightengale or Wothington Hooker who said Primum non nocere, translation: "first do no harm" . The Greek Hippocratic oath said, "abstain from doing harm". There are ways of getting fat people to lose weight and keep it off that are indeed harmless. Unfortunately I don't think large scale success if popular without offending most of them.
There was a time when doctors were advocates for their patients' well being and the idea of WLS would have been repugnant to them but back then medicine was not a corporate venture; it was a sacred trust between a doctor and patient.
Here is how politically correct we have become. I knew an old doctor who finally gave up practice when hr reached age 90. He was a GP. He delivered more babies in his career than most OB/GYNs will. He was reprimanded late in his career because he had a fat mother who was in labor and not pushing. She was being a drama queen. I yelled at her "push you fat cow" and she got angry and pushed and the baby was born. She was outraged that this doctor called her a fat cow. She did not stop to think that his tactics saved her baby from distress and possible injury. What is more unethical for a doctor, calling a patient a fat cow or butchering the healthy digestive systems of patients? 30 years ago calling butchering healthy organs would be unethical but today calling a fat cow a fat cow is unethical and worthy of professional reprimand.
I wish my methods would succeed using a more gentle style but unfortunately this is no a painless process. If being nice worked for weight loss then Richard Simmons would have stopped the obesity crisis 30 years ago. When it comes to the wife and kiddies I'm a nice guy. If I were training troops for war I would not be a nice guy about it. More American people will die this month from obesity than died in the entire Viet Nam war. Think about it.
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Bushido78
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Posted: 11 Feb 2010 02:29 pm |
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CG Brady wrote: I wish my methods would succeed using a more gentle style but unfortunately this is no a painless process. If being nice worked for weight loss then Richard Simmons would have stopped the obesity crisis 30 years ago. When it comes to the wife and kiddies I'm a nice guy. If I were training troops for war I would not be a nice guy about it. More American people will die this month from obesity than died in the entire Viet Nam war. Think about it.
You are correct. Constantly being nice to someone about an important issue such as obesity and weight loss doesn't make them feel that anything needs to be taken seriously. When you become slightly insulting, it changes the way the mind perceives the situation. Far too many people in this nation are easy going and have nobody to "really" push them or make them see the reality of obesity and it's consequences. Some people watch the tv show, The Biggest Loser, and think, "Wow, those trainers are really mean to those fat people." Look at the end result......they lose the weight. I completely agree with your theory.
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CG Brady
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Posted: 12 Feb 2010 09:14 pm |
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Bushido78 wrote: CG Brady wrote: I wish my methods would succeed using a more gentle style but unfortunately this is no a painless process. If being nice worked for weight loss then Richard Simmons would have stopped the obesity crisis 30 years ago. When it comes to the wife and kiddies I'm a nice guy. If I were training troops for war I would not be a nice guy about it. More American people will die this month from obesity than died in the entire Viet Nam war. Think about it.
You are correct. Constantly being nice to someone about an important issue such as obesity and weight loss doesn't make them feel that anything needs to be taken seriously. When you become slightly insulting, it changes the way the mind perceives the situation. Far too many people in this nation are easy going and have nobody to "really" push them or make them see the reality of obesity and it's consequences. Some people watch the tv show, The Biggest Loser, and think, "Wow, those trainers are really mean to those fat people." Look at the end result......they lose the weight. I completely agree with your theory.
A lo of people are easily offended or feign being offended just to put you on the defensive. Losing weight is no pleasant. Going without easy tasty junk food is not pleasant for some people. Exercise requires effort.
My clients turn the corner when they are forced to consider the negative effects their gluttony has on the people in their lives and society as a whole. Acknowledging that they are indeed gluttons makes their favorite kibble a bit less appealing to them.
Weight loss is a rehabilitation process. I call it reform.
IMO the first step for a fatling is to stand in front of a full length and admit that they are a glutton and fess up. Then they need to commit to lasting change.
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tourproven
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 15 Feb 2010 02:18 pm |
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CG Brady wrote: I have a Kaiser Permanente WLS release form.
Don't you mean "Kaiser Soze"?
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CG Brady
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Posted: 16 Feb 2010 03:21 am |
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Unless they have change their name its Kaiser Permamente.
Here it is and it will blow your mind that anyone would sign it.
Weight Loss Surgery release form
[size=
][size=The following is the release form given to the patients of Dr Terry Simpson, bariatric surgeon, Phoenix, AZ and is reprinted with his permission. It is usually attributed to the insurance provider, Kaiser Permanante and used by several doctors and surgeons across the USA. Each patient is asked to read carefully and sign before their surgery. The patient who typed this in apparently decided against WLS after reading this. Many patients who suffer complications later admitted that they did NOT read this form - just signed it. Going into bariatric surgery not being prepared for after surgery compliance is extremely risky.
]Obesity Surgery - Considerations
Obesity is clearly an alarming health problem in the United States. Not only is the total number of obese individuals increasing, but also the age of onset of obesity is decreasing. Younger and younger Individuals have become morbidly obese and even experience adult type diabetes and heart disease at an unusually early age. Clearly the health habits of Americans are deadly. Individuals who are obese typically feel that they are going to die any minute simply because of what they weigh. They may feel they are discriminated against because of what they weigh. There is occasionally an underlying feeling that something drastic or violent needs to be done to their body in order to tame the fact that it is out of control. In their frustration they place their physician in the position of the bad guy if he or she doesn?σΤιΌΤδσt find them a good candidate for surgery. However, they must realize that the decision to use surgery to lose weight is not a patient decision. It is a medical decision. You may know people who have had surgery for their weight and everything has gone fine. They tell you that it was the best decision they ever made. They urge you to get the same procedure. However, It is also not their decision to make. It is a medical decision, taking into account you and your current mental and physical health. Obesity surgery is not strictly preventive. It is a medical treatment. It is a choice between two options, none of which are ideal. Patients often believe that the surgery is a preventive therapy. This is untrue Preventive therapy would have kept them from becoming obese in the first place. Obesity is a sickness and surgery is only one treatment It may not even be the best one or have the best outcome.
Read and understood ___________________________________________________
Surgeons will tell their patients that their problem is a genetic one, and that their only choice is to have this surgery. While genetics play a role, this reasoning is flawed. It happens to be true that all races within the United States have an increased risk of obesity over their genetic counterparts within other countries.
Europeans are more likely to be obese in the United States than Europe. Orientals are more likely to be obese in the United States than their country of origin. Likewise, African Americans, Hispanics Pacific Islanders, East Indians, all are likely to be heavier in this country. America is a bad place to live if you do not wish to be obese. Obesity involves complex physiology. Do not blame the lack of a cure on your doctor. Instead, blame a food industry that wants your money and will ?σΤιΌ?τfeed?σΤιΌ?Ψ you anything to get it. We have seen patients go to other countries to live for a while and lose weight while there. We have seen patients come from these other countries and immediately begin to put on weight.
Read and understood_________________________________________________
If you believe that you want to have this surgery so that you do not have to change what you eat you are mistaken. If it works right, this surgery changes WHAT you eat, not just how much. All patients eat less. Typically those individuals who find that they can eat anything they want after they have the surgery are the same individuals who either lose little weight or eventually gain the weight back. Read and understood_________________________________________
[highlight= rgb(255, 255, 0);]If you believe this surgery will restore you to complete and normal health you are mistaken. You are trading one nutrition problem for another problem. Obesity alone, does not necessarily kill you. You need to understand that when researchers do studies on the obese and find that they are more likely to die, this does not necessarily mean that how much they weigh, killed them. Obesity is ?σΤιΌ?σ symptom. It is just as likely that what they ate killed them. and also happened to make them heavy at the same time. Doctors who tell you ?σΤιΌ?τJust eat less?σΤιΌ?Ψ oversimplify the problem. You don?σΤιΌΤδσt need to eat less, you need to eat differently. This is the real reason obesity surgery works for some people. The changes they should have made without surgery are forced on them by side effects of the surgery. You will do best if fat and sugar make you sick after the procedure. Do not think you know better because you had a friend who had the surgery and did well despite eating whatever they wanted. This is an exception. Given enough time, they will probably put most of the weight back on.
Read and understood ___________________________________________________
Keep In Mind: [highlight= rgb(255, 255, 0);]Slender individuals have adult diabetes. Slender individuals have heart attacks. Sender individuals develop arthritis and have joint problems. Slender individuals have strokes and develop cancer. If obese individuals have these problems more commonly than the slender, it is because the same bad health habits just don?σΤιΌΤδσt happen to cause obesity in some individuals ?σΤιΌ?τfortunate?σΤιΌ?Ψ enough to be slender no matter what they eat. They may be slender but they could very likely die just as early in life as someone who is overweight.
Read and understood ___________________________________________________
As doctors, we are nearly always told, ?σΤιΌ?τI am willing to take the risk of dying from this surgery because it is better than going on like this?σΤιΌ?Ψ and ?σΤιΌ?τI don?σΤιΌΤδσt want to be a model. I Just want my health back?σΤιΌ?Ψ. All but a very few of these people later cry about the fact that they did not lose all the weight they wanted to lose. They are unhappy even though their health is improved. Many of them come back and want other cosmetic tune-ups like liposuction, tummy tucks and skin removal from their arms. Kaiser Permanente does not have a cosmetic surgery benefit. Save some of the money you are not spending on food for these elective procedures.
Read and understood _________________________________________________
[highlight= rgb(255, 255, 0);]Gastric surgery for weight loss causes nutritional deficiency in nearly 100% of individuals who have it done. The most common deficiencies are Vitamin B12, Iron, Calcium, Magnesium, Carotene (beta-carotene and other carotene vitamins) and potassium. In the beginning patients will faithfully get their vitamin B12 shots and take their vitamins. After a while they flatter themselves that they are healthy and just like anyone else. They discontinue getting checkups. This is risky. [highlight= rgb(255, 255, 0);]A recent follow-up study done on gastric bypass patients showed that even 10 years later there were severe nutritional deficiencies. You are NEVER normal. NEVER.
Read and understood __________________________________________________
If you have mental health issues like depression, anorexia, or bulimia you must not hide these problems. If you have any mental health history of any kind you must report this to the doctor who may refer you for this surgery. Initialing here, signifies that you have reported any of these problems. Kaiser cannot be responsible for what you have not disclosed to us.
Read and understood __________________________________________________
If you have a hidden or unreported problem with alcohol or drug abuse you must report these prior, to the surgery. The surgery could very likely kill you if this is true. Read and understood___________________________________________________
If you have pre-existing nutritional deficiencies or vitamin deficiencies because of poor eating habits you must report these and they must be corrected before surgery is even considered. It is not always possible to correct deficiencies once the surgery is performed. An example would be iron deficiency anemia.
Read and understood______________________________________________
If you are a candidate for surgery you must take either a high quality liquid vitamin or chewable vitamin with a complete listing of vitamins and minerals for the rest of your life. Flintstones chewable vitamins are one example. There are 3 or more versions of these vitamins and you need to carefully check for the one with the longer list of nutrients. Unless your vomiting is severe, take these daily even if you occasionally regurgitate or vomit food. If you are regurgitating and/or vomiting but are able to swallow any water or sip anything at all, you should be able to safely chew and swallow a small vitamin. Often patients complain that they do not like the flavor of these vitamins. Sorry, take them anyway.
Read and understood __________________________________________________
A complete inability to eat, or an ongoing problem with vomiting Is a dangerous situation. Fasting for more than 3-4 days is dangerous. Do not let a problem like this go on more than a day before seeking medical attention. Carefully document what you are able to eat and report it to the health care provider who sees you. Up to 30% of individuals develop ulcers where your intestine will join your stomach. This can cause vomiting and abdominal pain. Other more serious internal problems like bowel strangulation, perforation, infection of the inner abdomen and gallstones can cause the same thing. Seek medical help and make it clear to the provider that you have had gastric surgery. If possible, it is best to go back to the surgeon, if the surgery was recently performed. Remember, this is the surgery YOU asked for. If you wait days or weeks to seek medical help, we cannot be responsible for the complications or nutritional problems that occur.
Read and understood _________________________________________________
[highlight= rgb(255, 255, 0);]You should be aware that as nutritional science advances, we are discovering that there is more to food and health than vitamins, minerals, fiber, protein, carbohydrate and fat. Deficiencies in these nutrients resulted in rapid health effects that made them easy to identify. Nutrition science is now moving into new areas involving other more obscure chemicals in plants that have health effects that are more subtle and long term. This makes them harder to find, and their benefits difficult to document Most health studies are not done long enough to discover all outcomes. [highlight= rgb(255, 255, 0);]As these new substances are located and understood it will probably emerge that our stomachs have to be a given size just to take them all in. Because of this surgery, you will not be able to do so. Biologically, we have the G.I. tract we have for a reason. Changing it is purely experimental.
Read and understood __________________________________________________
Fruits, grains, vegetables, beans, nuts and wild animals (that were tough and hard to catch), existed on this planet long before farm machinery, stockyards, commercial animal processing plants and refineries. While what you do is your business, as far as your body is concerned, you do not have the right to eat abnormally. Your body chemistry will not adapt to junk just because you wish it This surgery does not make junk food good for you. Abuse your body and you lose. Chips, sugar, sodas, cookies, cakes, pudding, fast food, snacks, fried foods and excessive fat intake did not exist for human consumption before the last 75-100 years. What we consider food in this country is so different from what humans used to eat, we are almost certain to get sick on it as well as gain weight. Gastric bypass does NOT enable you to eat these foods and be healthy anyway. Normal weight is NOT all that is necessary to be healthy. When your stomach is the size of a teacup, and your small intestine arranged to cause malabsorption, you cannot eat poor quality food. You need every opportunity you can to even begin to get the nutrition you need. Gastric bypass creates malabsorption. You will not absorb all you eat because of what has been done to you. Gastric bypass makes poor eating habits no longer an option. We can?σΤιΌΤδσt come check your cupboards. This is your responsibility.
Read and understood___________________________________________________
Complications include, but are not limited to, infection, rupture, strangulation of the bowel, ulcers, non-healing of the wound, hernia at the Incision, excessive skin, abdominal pain, vomiting, nutritional deficiencies, depression, arthritis, gas, diarrhea, hair loss, gallstones, bone demineralization, menstrual changes, headaches, weight regain, body odor, bad breath, reflux, heartburn, pulmonary embolisms, heart attack or stroke, or other blood clots as well as death from the surgery Itself. [highlight= rgb(255, 255, 0);]Remember that those who had the surgery and say it was the best thing that ever happened to them, are the ones who are alive to tell you their side of the story. You're getting only part of the picture no matter what you learned from a friend, a TV news magazine, or on the internet.
Read and understood___________________________________________________
I have been given a copy of this.
DATE________________________
SIGNED________________________________________________________
WITNESS_______________________________________________________
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Hellrazor
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Posted: 16 Feb 2010 10:42 am |
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Well if people that did have complications admit to not reading that form it is on them for not reading it. All surgery's have complications and it is up to the patient to do their research before deciding to go ahead with it. My best friends mom had this done and it did change her life. She has followed everything they told her to do to a T and she is glad she did it. She has said that she tells people do your research first before deciding .90 % of her healthy issues are now gone and with the only thing being her bad knees. On a personal level I HATE anything to do with Kaiser but unfortantly with my knee issue I can't switch providers. Heck I hard time switching plans with in Kaiser due to it and making my doctor visits. You know they say you go to the doctor too much... hmm well they got me there by misdiagnosing my problem for a full year before figuring out. I looked into taking action against them and not one lawyer would take it on because there wasn't enough money envolved for them. They looked at all my documents and said that yes I had case but I would have a real hard time finding anyone to take it on cause of the money factor. So when I found out I had zero time to do research . If they had done their job correctly the first time I would have had ample time to figure out which procedure to have done. So time & research are key in any surgery
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CG Brady
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| Joined: | 20 Jan 2010 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 2010 07:34 pm |
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Hellrazor wrote: Well if people that did have complications admit to not reading that form it is on them for not reading it. All surgery's have complications and it is up to the patient to do their research before deciding to go ahead with it. My best friends mom had this done and it did change her life. She has followed everything they told her to do to a T and she is glad she did it. She has said that she tells people do your research first before deciding .90 % of her healthy issues are now gone and with the only thing being her bad knees. On a personal level I HATE anything to do with Kaiser but unfortantly with my knee issue I can't switch providers. Heck I hard time switching plans with in Kaiser due to it and making my doctor visits. You know they say you go to the doctor too much... hmm well they got me there by misdiagnosing my problem for a full year before figuring out. I looked into taking action against them and not one lawyer would take it on because there wasn't enough money envolved for them. They looked at all my documents and said that yes I had case but I would have a real hard time finding anyone to take it on cause of the money factor. So when I found out I had zero time to do research . If they had done their job correctly the first time I would have had ample time to figure out which procedure to have done. So time & research are key in any surgery
Many people do OK initially after WLS but as time goes on the develop diseases due to malabsorption syndrome. They usually don't with gastric band aka Lap Band.
Most fatlings who don't deal with their fattitude gain all the weight back. Look at Carney Wilson. That beast is scary!
I could cure her is 6 sessions although I may need a cattle prod.
As to your knee. The rest of the world is light years ahead of the US in orthopedic surgery. Medical tourism is becoming common place.
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hedgehog
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| Joined: | 28 Mar 2010 |
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Posted: 28 Mar 2010 06:11 pm |
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I must admit this was in Dr. Simpsons surgey packet a few years ago.
Someone must have told him he was an idiot, because it is not there now.
Turned me off that is for sure.
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 4 Aug 2011 05:56 pm |
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| Bump
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JSABD
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 27 Sep 2011 11:58 pm |
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roggernrogger wrote: Gastric Bypass surgery has more danger then other surgery. And each surgery is not getting suit to everyone. So many of patients do not suits this surgery. For that you have to take consult of doctor. You also take an opinion of 2-3 doctor about this. Do other surgeries like Gastric Banding and Gastric Sleeve and is good than bypass. Take proper advice then go for surgery. (NOTE: SHAMELESS SPAM LINKS EDITED OUT)
Corporate medical slime doctors see patients as customers and they treat them like customers. Bariatric surgeons are barbarians.Last edited on 28 Sep 2011 08:20 am by Nir
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Tankgirl
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Posted: 28 Sep 2011 02:36 am |
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It's almost Haloween. Want a horror story that'll scare yourelf out of ever thinking of going under the knife? Read about MRSA.
Everytime I read that contract, I want to save up the same amount of money a surgery would cost and live on it on a bike tour of Europe. It would probabbly wind up saving the insuranc co. money anyway.
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