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CrimsonAnimus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 05:42 pm |
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What do you all think of the following?
Extra pounds mean insurance fees for Ala. workers
MONTGOMERY, Ala. - Alabama, pushed to second in national obesity rankings by deep-fried Southern favorites, is cracking down on state workers who are too fat.
The state has given its 37,527 employees a year to start getting fit ?σΤιΌΤΗΨ or they'll pay $25 a month for insurance that otherwise is free.
Alabama will be the first state to charge overweight state workers who don't work on slimming down, while a handful of other states reward employees who adopt healthy behaviors.
Alabama already charges workers who smoke ?σΤιΌΤΗΨ and has seen some success in getting them to quit ?σΤιΌΤΗΨ but now has turned its attention to a problem that plagues many in the Deep South: obesity.
The State Employees' Insurance Board this week approved a plan to charge state workers starting in January 2010 if they don't have free health screenings.
If the screenings turn up serious problems with blood pressure, cholesterol, glucose or obesity, employees will have a year to see a doctor at no cost, enroll in a wellness program, or take steps on their own to improve their health. If they show progress in a follow-up screening, they won't be charged. But if they don't, they must pay starting in January 2011.
"We are trying to get individuals to become more aware of their health," said state worker Robert Wagstaff, who serves on the insurance board.
Not all state employees see it that way.
"It's terrible," said health department employee Chequla Motley. "Some people come into this world big."
Computer technician Tim Colley already pays $24 a month for being a smoker and doesn't like the idea of another charge.
"It's too Big Brotherish," he said.
The board will apply the obesity charge to anyone with a body mass index of 35 or higher who is not making progress. A person 5 feet 6 inches tall weighing 220 pounds, for example, would have a BMI of 35.5. A BMI of 30 is considered the threshold for obesity.
The board has not yet determined how much progress a person would have to show and is uncertain how many people might be affected because everyone could avoid the charge by working to lose weight.
But that's unlikely ?σΤιΌΤΗΨ government statistics show Alabamians have a big weight problem. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 30.3 percent are now obese, ranking the state behind only Mississippi.
E-K. Daufin of Montgomery, a college professor and founder of Love Your Body, Love Yourself, which holds body acceptance workshops, said the new policy will be stressful for people like her.
"I'm big and beautiful and doing my best to keep my stress levels down so I can stay healthy," Daufin said. "That's big, not lazy, not a glutton and certainly not deserving of the pompous, poisonous disrespect served up daily to those of us with more bounce to the ounce."
A recent study suggested that about half of overweight people and nearly a third of obese people have normal blood pressure and cholesterol levels, while about a quarter of people considered to be normal weight suffer from the ills associated with obesity.
Walter Lindstrom, founder of the Obesity Law and Advocacy Center in California, said he's concerned that all overweight Alabama employees will get is advice to walk more and broil their chicken.
"The state will feel good about itself for offering something and the person of size will end up paying $300 a year for the bad luck of having a chronic disease his/her state-sponsored insurance program failed to cover in an appropriate and meaningful fashion," he said.
William Ashmore, executive director of the State Employees' Insurance Board, said the state will spend an extra $1.6 million next year on screenings and wellness programs, but should see significant long-term savings.
Ashmore said research shows someone with a body mass index of 35 to 39 generates $1,748 more in annual medical expenses than someone with a BMI less than 25, considered normal.
According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, a few states offer one-time financial incentives for pursuing healthy lifestyles. Ohio workers, for instance, get $50 for having health assessments and another $50 for following through with the advice.
Arkansas and Missouri go a step further, offering monthly discounts on premiums for employees who take health risk assessments and participate in wellness programs to reduce obesity, stress and other health problems.
Alabama's new policy is drawing no objection from the lobbying group representing state workers.
Mac McArthur, executive director of Alabama State Employees Association, said the plan is not designed to punish employees.
"It's a positive," he said.
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MidgeH
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 06:03 pm |
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I am split over this. One the one hand I do not want anyone punished because of their weight. That seems, well, immoral to be honest. However, I am all for there being incentives to make ourselves more fit. (I guess you can't do much with free insurance but it would be better to get a rebate if you work on becoming fit, but don't get the discount if you don't. It seems less punitive that way. And affects the thin as well as the heavy as anyone could choose to participate.)
Final thought about the article though - who is the state of Alabama to determine what is fit and what isn't?
By the way, this whole "I'm big and I'm healthy, leave me alone" from people with obviously high body fat annoys me to no end. You can be thin and unhealthy, thin and fit, fat and unhealthy, or fat and LUCKY - and that's it. (and I'm not talking about those skewed numbers for professional atheletes, they may be big but they aren't fat)
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CrimsonAnimus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 06:13 pm |
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Here are my own thoughts:
I agree with this program. Being obese does contribute to higher health care costs. Just look at the following:
Ashmore said research shows someone with a body mass index of 35 to 39 generates $1,748 more in annual medical expenses than someone with a BMI less than 25, considered normal.
If you consider how much of the population is obese, you can see how much of an impact this has. For people in my age group, there is less of an impact, but we are also less likely to go to the doctor to begin with. It's when you get in the 40's, 50's, 60's and beyond age groups that it really starts to make a noticeable impact.
One particular statement caught my attention:
If the screenings turn up serious problems with blood pressure, cholesterol, glucose or obesity, employees will have a year to see a doctor at no cost, enroll in a wellness program, or take steps on their own to improve their health.
Free screening? Do you know how much diagnostic screening services cost? The price is outrageous. It is what has deterred me from going to the doctor. This is a move in which the state will have to assume financial responsibility for an obese person getting the help that he/she needs. That is definitely a positive move, in my opinion.
So, do obese people really need help? Yes, we do! The mentality that people have expressed in this article is that they are being forced to lose weight. No one is forcing them. They don't have to lose weight, but if they want someone else to pay for their health care, then they will have to pay a little extra. This is more than fair, especially since they will still pay less annually than the additional expenses that the average obese person generates.
I know other states offer incentive programs for losing weight. These are not as effective, in my opinion. People are more likely to react to having to pay extra money to be healthy than to receive extra money to be healthy.
Like it or not, this is still an incentive program. If AL was charging extra taxes to obese people, it would be a different matter. Health care, however, is an optional benefit, and being obese does contribute directly to this cost.
Hopefully, I can do this respectfully, but I'm going to comment on a few of the complaints referenced in this article:
"It's terrible," said health department employee Chequla Motley. "Some people come into this world big."
Yeah, I know what you mean, Chequla. I came in at almost 10 pounds, and have been obese for a long time. After I lose 10 more pounds, though, I'll no longer be obese. Coming into the world big is not an excuse.
Computer technician Tim Colley already pays $24 a month for being a smoker and doesn't like the idea of another charge. "It's too Big Brotherish," he said.
No, Big Brotherish would be if you called to order a pizza, and they told you, "Sorry, Tim, but I see that you have high cholesterol, and are overweight by 50 pounds. Please go to the grocery story to buy fruits and veggies instead."
The last I heard, health care is still an optional benefit in this country. If you don't want to pay the extra fee, then you don't have to.
"I'm big and beautiful and doing my best to keep my stress levels down so I can stay healthy," Daufin said. "That's big, not lazy, not a glutton and certainly not deserving of the pompous, poisonous disrespect served up daily to those of us with more bounce to the ounce."
It's a fact that being obese does increase your chances of contracting certain conditions. You might not see the effects now, if you're young, but you certainly will when you get older. Even if your blood pressure, cholesterol, and blood sugar are normal, you will still be more likely to get heart disease, because of excess fatty issue around the heart, and the excess pressure on your joints will make you more likely to develop arthritis and other joint conditions.
I think this is a positive, too. We could use a similar program in TN. I know that if such an opportunity had presented itself before I became self-employed, I would likely have taken advantage of it.
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MidgeH
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 06:22 pm |
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Health care, however, is an optional benefit,
Not necessarily, most employers insist that you participate in health insurance in some way - or be it on your own head - , but you bring up a good point. If the cost is $0 now, they cannot force someone to pay them the $25. (Hence the reason that incentive programs - not punitive ones like this - I think are more popular in states/companies that do this. From a company persepective what Alabama is proposing would be a nightmare to administer. ) (also, as someone who would be living in a box under a viaduct without my health insurance I'm not sure optional is what I would call it.)
Another is also the question of what about covered dependents. Do they have to participate as well, or the fine goes up even higher?
For the most part I agree with everything you said Nick, I'm just not sure I like the tone of this particular program.
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OnceUpon-A-ThinGirl
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 06:28 pm |
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| Over-all I actually think it's a good idea, but what looks good on paper doesn't always work. If the end result is that people actually get healthy and there's less money spent on health care that's great. But if it just ends up that people are paying more and not getting healthy, then what's the point? Other than the health insurance companies benefit?
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CrimsonAnimus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 06:30 pm |
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Keep in mind, though, that this is only for state employees, not general businesses. That means the state is forking the bill for health care, and that the extra $1,748 in health care expenses is coming out of taxpayer pocket. This helps to offset some of that cost, giving the state more money to work with.
I agree that everyone should have health care, though. I also believe that we should government health care, but that's a different topic.
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MidgeH
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 06:32 pm |
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| Excellent point, Nick. I didn't even think of that.
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CrimsonAnimus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 06:37 pm |
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To put things in perspective:
Alabama's population as of 2006 is 4,599,030. With 30.3% of them being obese, that makes about 1,393,506 obese people.
With an average $1,748 in additional health care expenses for an obese person versus a normal weight person, that totals $2,435,848,488 (over 2 billion dollars)!
Granted, not everybody in AL has insurance, but it still shows the financial impact of obesity on health care.
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Hellrazor
New Member
| Joined: | 6 Jul 2008 |
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| Posts: | 872 |
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 09:19 pm |
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I'm all for it!! maybe some of them might take action and better themselves. Moslty likely not though. That will give them something to bitch about around the watercooler while chowing down a doughnut.
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StuckSara
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 10:21 pm |
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| I was thinking everything you said when I was reading the article, crimson. I'm glad you said it all though because I don't know if I would have put it as well, and I wouldn't have wanted to come across as being insensitive since I have nevere been technically obese.
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StuckSara
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 9 Sep 2008 10:23 pm |
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| Another thing, yes, some people who are obese will never have the typical medical complications that come along with it. Just like not everyone like me who pays $170 a month for insurance will never actually have to use it. $25 dollars is relatively small.
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cportwine
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 10 Sep 2008 10:13 am |
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Well, I have mixed feelings on this also.
I think trying to get people healthy is a good idea, just not sure this is the way to do it.
I really think that someone needs to be in charge of their own health. This is no different than the hmo's that tell you what doctor you can see. I find it odd that the state and the insurance companys are putting themselves in charge of other peoples health. This really bothers me (since I am a person who hates being told what to do).
But, on the other hand, the state and the insurance companies are the ones paying for these peoples health care cost. I know that if I had to pay for my brothers health care cost, then I would want him to be as healthy as possible- to cut those cost for myself.
So, like I said, I have mixed feelings on this.
I also, really believe that this will not help allot of people in the long run. If someone wants to be healthy then they will try to achieve this. I think in the long run, people will just start paying the fee and not worry about all the hassles of not paying it.
Also, I think it's a fine line to determine who is healthy and who is not. My brother in laws cholesterol is better than mine, he is a healthy weight and all other test came out great, and he had a heart attack. My husband is overweight, and all of his test came out with flying colors. I really believe that health issues have allot to do with family history (hereditary).
And we all know what some doctors can be like. So, how do we know this doctor making all these decision is the right one (they all have their opinions).
I really just think this is to much for a health care program.
If the place I worked told me I had to do this. I would be so mad, that I would probably quit. Just how I would feel about it. My health is no ones business besides my own. If I go to work do my job, then what gives them the right to tell me what to do with my health, especially if it is not affecting the way that I perform at work. I know you said health care is optional- but I don't believe that is the case. If you don't take the insurance then what? Buy your own at a huge rate, live off of the goverment- and be refuse since you could of had insurance through your employer. They put in a position where you have to take the insurance.
I have a friend right now who has high blood pressure because of the stress from his job. So, what would they do in that situation. Charge him for health care for going to work and getting stressed out.
It's always about the all mighty dollar, not about what is right for someones health.
ok, I have said enough... 
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Hellrazor
New Member
| Joined: | 6 Jul 2008 |
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| Posts: | 872 |
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Posted: 10 Sep 2008 10:43 am |
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If my job told me to get in shape or you will have to pay a extra fee then guess what?? I would do it. I would look at it like it is part of my job that they are asking me to do. I understand about who determines who is healthy cause I tried switch health plans. I was denied cause of medication , weight , and seeing the doctor to much . This was 5 months after my second knee surgery. So 6 months after that I got denied again same reason and guess what??? I took charge and got in shape. So I am seeing my doc next week to see what my options are for getting off my medication. So that would eliminate all 3 things. So if people don't want to be charged extra then they can take steps to change it and if not be charged extra for it.
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CrimsonAnimus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 10 Sep 2008 05:35 pm |
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With regard to health care, there are 3 basic types of people:
1.) People who make it a point to stay healthy.
2.) People who are unhealthy but will change their lifestyle at a doctor's recommendation.
3.) People who are unhealthy and don't really want to change it.
For people in Category #2, this program is a big incentive. Do you know how much diagnostic screening actually costs? Several thousands of dollars in most cases. Not only is the state offering to fully pay for screenings, but also for enrollment in wellness programs. Both options give people the chance to help themselves.
Further, this doesn't take effect until 2011, so that gives them 3 years to either get a non-government job, or improve their health.
For people in Category #3, it really doesn't matter one way or the other. Some people are perfectly content being obese, and that is their prerogative. However, if they lack the drive to be healthy, they shouldn't even bother having health insurance at all. What is the point of a doctor telling you that you need to lose weight and offering help if you're not willing to receive it? It's a waste of time and money.
Also, why is health care an absolute necessity? On the off chance that something drastic could happen?
In such circumstances, an ER has to receive you without demanding prior compensation by federal law. Even if you can't pay the bill, most health care providers will settle for less, and even if they won't, there is little they can actually do, anyway.
The basic concept behind a health care plan is to keep yourself healthy so that such drastic things do not happen. I do believe you can be obese and be happy, but there is really no argument that by being obese, you will inevitably run into health problems later down the road. For people in my age group, it's less likely, but it will catch up with us, eventually.
In the end, it is up to us to help ourselves. The government can provide incentives, or the lack thereof, and those make a difference, but each of us are responsible for making healthy decisions. This program would enable people to have more easy access to taking charge of their health. Whether or not they choose to do so is up to them, but I firmly believe that if they choose not to, that they should have to pay more than those who choose to do so, simply because they do generate more health care expenses, on average.
One more thing - many health insurance plans require a physical, and they will charge you a higher premium if you have a present health risk, including obesity. It's really no different here, except that $25 a month is likely much, much less than you would have to pay for commercial health care.
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Aussiegal
New Member
| Joined: | 11 Sep 2008 |
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| Posts: | 3 |
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Posted: 11 Sep 2008 08:34 am |
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Wow, I think If this was tried here in Australia people would just turn around stick up that finger and say "beep you".
Although personally I think its a great incentive and I wish that It was part of a global initiative (think of the poor planet having to carry all us around :).
I would hate to have to pay for health care, I get annoyed enough having to pay for specialist appointments.
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christyandmuddy
New Member
| Joined: | 5 May 2008 |
| Location: | Florida USA |
| Posts: | 248 |
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Posted: 12 Sep 2008 08:23 am |
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I may be wrong but I believe most private companies (in the U.S.) charge their employees at least something for their health insurance by deducting from their paycheck. $25 a month is a reasonable charge for anyone's health insurance in my opinion. I think they should have presented this differently, though. Perhaps they should have said that they will now be charging everyone $25 a month for their health insurance but if you are not obese or obese but making progress that you would be exempt from the charges. That way it seems more like an incentive to get an exemption rather than a charge for not losing weight.
*Edited to add that I was talking about the U.S. specifically.
Last edited on 12 Sep 2008 08:25 am by christyandmuddy
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